Psychedelics Today Podcast

In this episode, Joe interviews Jeremy Falk: certified instructor and training program developer for Kama Flight; and Dr. David Rabin, MD, Ph.D.: board-certified psychiatrist and neuroscientist, co-founder & chief Medical Officer at Apollo Neuroscience, and advisor to Kama Flight.

Kama Flight is a wellness modality for partners, inspired by the movements of Watsu therapy, Thai massage, 5Rhythms, tango, improv dance, and Acroyoga. At the heart of it is the dynamic between the two people engaged in the dance (the ‘base’ and the ‘voyager’), which touches on collaboration, leadership, receptivity, strength, surrender, and most importantly, trust. The communication and instant feedback shared between the partners mixed with the healing energy of the somatic movements results in moving stuck energy out of their bodies while also making them more comfortable with touch, agency, and consent – which could be extremely beneficial toward preparing for a psychedelic experience.

They talk about:

• The four principles behind Kama Flight: permission, presence, polarity, and play
• The humility and humor in people trying (and failing) some of the movements, and how that is healing in itself
• The huge benefit in people switching between the roles of base and voyager
• What kind of growth they’ve seen in clients over extended periods of time
• The importance of making time for pleasure in our lives

and more!

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Ariel Clark: Anishinaabe attorney and co-founder of the Psychedelic Bar Association, a national association of lawyers involved in the highly-regulated ecosystem of psychedelic law.

She talks about ethics: How do the different societal norms of each lineage we carry interact with each other? What is the cultural framing that informs those ways of knowing, and do we align with it? Is there a code of ethics we can all agree on? As the rush to legalize psychedelics increases, Clark finds herself at a crossroads of wondering if our actions are really of service to the greater good: Can the overculture legalize psychedelics effectively, while doing less harm to Indigenous culture and the medicines themselves?

She discusses:

• The challenges of working in psychedelic law with all of the other factors at play: How do you ethically support a client?
• The idea that these medicines can have agency – even the synthetic ones
• Shifting from a Western mind state of “what are my rights?” to an Indigenous frame of: “What are my responsibilities?”
• Her story of healing from debilitating back pain with psychedelics and spiritual alignment
• The need for public education to be at the center of future legislation attempts

and more!

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Angie Roullier: longtime veteran of the cannabis industry and author of the book, Pot for the People: The Plant, the People, and the Shop Policies of Cannabis.

Diagnosed with the neurological disorder, Charcot-Marie-Tooth (CMT), Roullier tells the story of how cannabis replaced all her medications, which led to a personal journey and career centered on cannabis education. She talks about the challenges patients face in today’s rapidly evolving cannabis markets, misconceptions surrounding cannabis, the ignorance of many budtenders, and how not knowing enough can lead to an underwhelming high. She discusses how she educated people in shops and how her book was written to teach people how to ask the right questions to not only ensure a safe and effective experience, but to also give them the experience they’re looking for.

She talks about:

-The early days of Michigan’s medical program and the state’s current attempt to essentially combine medical and recreational markets -Cannabis culture and an emerging “I can take more milligrams than you” bravado -Why understanding terpenes and the entourage effect can be game-changing toward finding a preferred strain -The rise of hemp-derived THC products, the regulatory loopholes they exploit, and their potential risks -Why home growers and caregivers are essential to the cannabis ecosystem

and more!

For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Tommy Aceto: former Navy Seal and trauma medic, and now, ambassador for the Veteran Mental Health Leadership Coalition and advisor at Beond Ibogaine.

He talks about how much the psychedelic space focuses on healing and mental health, but doesn’t talk enough about the overall wellness that can come from a consistent practice: that the more you become aware of your body, emotions, and breath, the more robust your neural pathways will become – and that you can actually change your neurochemistry and build a more energetically powerful system. With these pathways being opened, fewer psychedelic experiences are necessary, and with practice, these mind states can be achieved simply through meditation or breathwork. The idea of surrender and entering a state of receivership is scary, but he believes the most important skill to begin that transformation is to learn how to truly let go.

He also talks about:

• What the psychedelic scene is like in Nashville and the south
• His work with the Kentucky Opioid Abatement Advisory Commission and what happened with the bill to grant 42 million for ibogaine research
• His most powerful 5-MeO-DMT experience and how it reconnected him with the divine
• The science and practice of gratitude: how reframing painful experiences can actually rewire the brain
• How cold exposure (notably ice baths) can prepare your system for a psychedelic experience

and more! Happy New Year from all of us at Psychedelics Today. Let's hope for big psychedelic wins in 2025!

For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Melanie Curtis: world record professional skydiver, keynote speaker, coach, co-host of the Trust the Journey podcast, and author of How to Fly: Life Lessons From a Professional Skydiver.

Curtis shares her journey from taking her first transformative leap out of an airplane to becoming a leader in skydiving, public speaking, and now, the integration of psychedelics into personal growth. She discusses the parallels between skydiving and working with psychedelics – most notably in the idea of leaping into the unknown, trusting the universe, and in the potential that can be unlocked after you’ve come back down to earth. While relatively new to the psychedelic space, she stresses the importance of sharing your story and opening up dialogues, no matter how small you think your voice may be.

She talks about:

• Her early psilocybin journeys and recent ayahuasca experiences
• How she came out of the psychedelic closet to her Mother, and learning of the power of small steps and trusting the universe
• Realizing how her Father’s behavior affected her, and how it has made her more connected to her femininity and other women
• The power of confidence and how much better we’d all be if the fear of humiliation wasn’t so prominent in our lives

and more!

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Dan Ronken: licensed professional counselor and addiction counselor with a private practice in Boulder, CO, called Inclusion Recovery, and lead trainer and facilitator for the Integrative Psychiatry Institute (IPI).

He tells his story of going from a sponsored BMX racer to three stints in rehab before the age of 14, and what he’s learned from his experiences in recovery over the years: that there is a wide range of what ‘in recovery’ actually means, that abstinence-only and 12-step models don’t work for many, that connection and community – and consistency in both – are enormous parts of what actually leads to overcoming an addiction, and more. As recovery communities cautiously begin to talk about psychedelics, he highlights the importance of nuance in understanding addiction, the need for open-mindedness toward new therapeutic approaches, and the need for diverse support networks that welcome discussions around psychedelics.

He talks about:

• Inducing alcohol cravings before an intramuscular ketamine shot as a way of using neuroplasticity to rewire the brain’s relationship with alcohol
• How Bill Wilson, co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, benefitted greatly from LSD in the 50s, and how Ronken originally scoffed at such a concept
• The growing visibility of psychedelics in popular media, as seen in shows like “Loudermilk” and “Ted Lasso”
• The benefits of sober communities coming together for active and healthy activities

and more!

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Shauheen Etminan, Ph.D.: co-founder of VCENNA, a drug discovery and development company, and Magi Ancestral Supplements, which sells nootropics inspired by ancient Eastern traditions.

He discusses his journey into the world of plant extraction, how he first discovered compounds like Haoma and Harmaline, and why he decided to bring Iranian tradition to the psychedelic renaissance. He explores the similarities between psychedelics and experiences found in mystical traditions, and how that historical context can inform modern psychedelic practice. He sees this exemplified most with dream recollection, attending to the emotions found within dreams, and the concept of wakeful dreaming, where one can access unconscious insights consciously, through the liminal (or hypnagogic) state between dreaming and wakefulness. 

He discusses:

• Zoroastrianism and how the teachings of Zarathustra on understanding morality have inspired hi
• Syrian Rue in Iranian culture, and how it compares to the Banisteriopsis Caapi vine: Is it actually stronger than ayahuasca
• Henry Corbin’s practice of embodied imagination and Jung’s concept of active imaginatio
• Other less-discussed compounds he’s interested in, like Ephedra and Saffron

and more!

For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Paul Grof: research psychiatrist, clinician, author, brother of Stanislav, professor of psychiatry at the University of Toronto, and director of the Ottawa Mood Disorders Center.

He talks about his extensive career in psychiatry, and how trying to understand the cause of mood disorders led him to focusing on the very nature of consciousness. He believes that consciousness is a collaborative creation between the brain, body, and external fields, and that the key to connecting with the mechanistic side of academia is through talking about the unexplainable – near death experiences, pre-cognition, remote viewing – and of course, them having positive non-ordinary experiences through psychedelics or other means. He talks about how much we’re connected, how much our bodies remember, and how much society could change for the better if enough people experience the transpersonal.

He also discusses:

• His thoughts on legal frameworks, education, integration, and whether or not psychedelics will get stuck in psychiatry
• The importance of new study designs in research, as double blinding doesn’t make sense for psychedelics
• Concerns over spiritual emergence and emergencies: How much is the responsibility of the therapist or facilitator?
• The global rise in depression and addiction, especially in the younger generation, and the need for techniques for people to help themselves
• The work he’s doing with remote healing circles, using strong intention, positive emotions, and visualized healing

and more!

For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Kat Murti: executive director of Students for Sensible Drug Policy (SSDP), the largest nationwide network of students fighting to replace the War on Drugs with policies rooted in evidence, compassion, and human rights.

She talks about how she became interested in drug policy, which not surprisingly aligns with the many problems of The War on Drugs: how it’s a war on people, personal liberty, and our communities; how laws are not effective in enforcing morality; and how getting in trouble with the law often incentivizes more illegal activity. We all know that our current system doesn’t work and that the drug war no longer appeals to most reasonable people, but how can we move towards sensible policy? She discusses previous successes (both at SSDP and before), and some of their current projects, from the work they’re doing with fentanyl strip training and distribution, to education work at festivals and their program, “Just Say Know.”

She talks about:

• How drug policy isn’t going to look the same everywhere and shouldn’t: How do we effectively use different models in different places together for the benefit of everyone?
• The dangers of forcing drug users through drug courts and treatment centers
• The repealing of Oregon’s Measure 110 and how it’s unfair to blame its failure on problems that already existed in the state
• Their new focus on how the War on Drugs specifically affects women and reproductive rights, inspired by Louisiana recently scheduling Mifepristone and Misoprostol

and much more.

The SSDP’s biggest battle now is fighting the DEA’s attempted scheduling of DOI and DOC, two compounds that have been used in research for decades and pose no real threat to safety – which would drastically derail a ton of research. They just completed a 10-day hearing with the DEA. Watch Joe and Hamilton Morris’ breakdown here, and stay tuned to SSDP and PT for updates. 

For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Howard Kornfeld, MD: renowned pain medicine expert, addiction specialist, early pioneer in psychedelic medicine, and currently the director of recovery medicine at Recovery Without Walls.

As a leader in the utilization of buprenorphine, he talks about how it came about as a treatment for addiction and chronic pain, its similarities to MDMA, and how its fast-tracked FDA approval could give us clues on how to get MDMA approved. He also dives into the history of ketamine, its unique effects compared to other substances, its potential for abuse, and what can happen with overuse. And he talks a lot about the connection he sees between psychedelics and the prevention of nuclear war, inspired by Sasha Shulgin’s opinion that nothing changes minds faster than psychedelics. He points out that when there is darkness, there is light: Albert Hofmann’s famed bicycle trip on acid happened 3 months after the nuclear chain reaction was invented. Can the growing use of psychedelics inspire the kind of change we need to save the world?

He also discusses:

• The need for new study designs as we come to terms with the fact that double-blind studies don’t really work with psychedelics
• Criticisms of the FDA’s denial of MDMA: Was the process unfair?
• His predictions that advocates will begin pushing to decriminalize MDMA at the state level
• The books, Tripping on Utopia and Drugged
• How he played a part in prisons ending the practice of killing prisoners with cyanide gas

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Veronica Lightning Horse Perez: therapist, speaker, author, activist, and co-chief proponent for the Natural Medicine Health Act of 2022 (Prop 122); and Sean McAllister: attorney specializing in the regulatory, health care, business, and religious freedom aspects of psychedelic medicines, and one of the drafters of Prop 122.

This episode was recorded live at the Plant Medicine Cafe in Denver, CO – which served as an unofficial Prop 122 headquarters – and cohosted by Meaghan Len, co-founder of the U.S.’ first ayahuasca church, Sanctuary of the Sovereign Heart.

They dive into the details of Prop 122 and discuss why it’s the most freeing legislation we’ve seen, but also very complicated in the clash between an expensive regulated side and a risky and ambiguous decrim side. While the implementation process continues, they’ve learned that there is still a huge need for public education, and that one of the most important tasks now is to be hyper aware of how legislators will try to change what people already agreed on.

They discuss:

• The Federal vs. state legality issues we still see even after such sweeping legislation
• The huge gap in understanding why Indigenous communities are upset and why they need to be included in all discussions
• The Religious Freedom Restoration Act and the complications of religion when many of us simply feel spiritual
• The natural vs. synthetic fallacy and the future of churches offering a synthetic sacrament
• The ontological shock many have after a big experience and why churches and community are needed to help guide people

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews two members of the Heroic Hearts Project: Founder and President, Jesse Gould; and Director of Development and Head of Family Relations, Allison Wilson.

Gould gives a background of Heroic Hearts Project and discusses their current projects and future goals, and Wilson talks about her nonprofit, The Hope Project, and its recent merger with HHP to bring more of a focus to the other side of veteran healing: the families of veterans. While Heroic Hearts and other veteran-aligned organizations have been an answer to many vets unable to find help otherwise (and frustrated with the inconsistencies of the VA), they talk a lot about that missing piece – how crucial it is to have family involved in a veteran’s reintegration, and how that healing can impact future generations.

"The Veteran’s Guide to Psychedelics: A Preparation and Integration Workbook" was recently released, with all proceeds going to HHP, and they are hosting their first Gala event, this week, December 5, in Los Angeles. The goal of the event is to fundraise, gather community, and recognize the supporters who have gotten Heroic Hearts to where it is today, and will feature live and silent auctions and a performance by Melissa Etheridge. Email Allison@heroicheartsproject.org if you’d like to attend.

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Victoria interviews Max Montrose: Founder of the Trichome Institute, a company offering online courses and certifications on cannabis.

Montrose explores the scientific and sensory aspects of cannabis, diving into the role of the aromatic compound, indole, and how the fresher and more aromatic (usually pungent) the flower is, the higher chance for having a more psychedelic experience. He dives into ways to maximize the psychedelic nature of cannabis, largely through “interprening,” which is his method for learning about a plant’s effects from smelling buds, measuring your sense of sensation and where you feel the smell is hitting you. And he talks a lot about intention and how the power of a cannabis experience can be determined by the reverence you have for the plant and the intention you put behind each inhale: It is a “total reflection of how much you care.”

He also discusses:

• The range of cannabis effects: how it can be just weed – something mindlessly smoked all day with a slight numbing effect – or an incredibly powerful, life-changing experience
• The importance of skillset being added to the concept of set and setting: the skills you have (and can practice) for helping you create your own setting to get through a tough time
• Issues with the legal cannabis industry about accuracy of strains, shelf life, and the ability to smell the product
• The lack of money in cannabis research: Why is no one funding research into indole chemistry?
• Why indica and sativa are not accurate terms, and how aroma is more of a factor than we realize

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Pierre Bouchard, LPC, LM: therapist, minister, and former professional vinyl DJ specializing in psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy and ministry. 

Bouchard introduces his 3-axis framework for psychedelic integration, which looks at the personal, the transpersonal, and, with time, seeing how the lessons learned from non-ordinary experiences and personal work are expressing to the world: How can we use what we've learned to show up better? How can we use our gifts to be of service to others? What is stopping us? He also talks about the importance of building a foundation for holding the experience of a psychedelic journey - that you have to first build an ego to later dissolve it - but recognizes the tricky balance of not strengthening an ego so much that it gets in the way. 

He discusses:

• The broad scope of what someone can mean when they say "psychedelic healing"
• The importance of keeping the 3 axes in harmony - that you should always be attending to each
• Why someone beginning a healing journey needs to be smart, curious, and desperate
• The challenge of discerning between an entity or a projection: How do we know what to take from that experience?
• Why practitioners and therapists need to find a balance between being confident and humble

and more!

For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Joe interviews Bria Tavakoli, LPCC, MA, MS: a therapist specializing in relational and sex therapy, with a focus on helping clients integrate psychedelic experiences.

She shares her personal journey with psychedelics and how they unlocked deep trauma, allowing her to develop a level of comfort with intimacy, love, and her sexuality. She talks about the parallels between psychedelic journeys and sexual experiences, and how both can be gateways to unexplored parts of ourselves, as well as catalysts for healing and transformation. She discusses society’s cultural shame surrounding our sexuality, why we need to view sexuality from a wellness-based model, and how psychedelics can help couples grow together, and at times, really challenge their relational structures. When asked how to combine sex and psychedelics, she answers, “very carefully.”

She also discusses:

• The immense importance of creating a safe space for couples discussing their intimacy
• How clients reporting sexual concerns is usually a cheat code to determining what their real issues are
• Ethical and practical considerations for combining psychedelics and sex therapy, related to stories of concerning sexual behavior in the space
• Why humor and lightness is so important in this work
• The importance of honoring individual capacity and being true to yourself when exploring new experiences

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode, Kyle interviews Juan Pablo Cappello: co-founder and former CEO of Nue Life Health, whose assets were subsequently acquired by Beckley Waves.

Cappello discusses the current challenges and controversies facing a ketamine industry that has moved much faster than anyone anticipated, and stresses the need to create industry-wide standards – especially for at-home ketamine – before the government imposes its own standards on us. Citing the Matthew Perry case and other bad behavior from providers, he talks about the risks of overpromising and underdelivering, the lack of integration in the majority of at-home ketamine frameworks, and how profit-driven, subscription model motives have overshadowed patient care and ethical practices.

He also discusses:

• The complications from personal perspectives and passions shifting after a psychedelic experience, and how that can change over time
• The FDA’s recent rejection of MDMA: What would have happened to MDMA if it had been approved?
• Hope for more Native American churches, and what they can learn from the DEA’s denial of Soul Quest
• The story of a bump of cocaine ruining the hope for cannabis to be decriminalized under the Carter administration
• Our current Wild West of gas station CBD, Delta-8, and barely-regulated vapes

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Kyle interviews Geoff Bathje, Ph.D.: licensed psychologist, researcher, former Full Professor, and co-founder of Sana Healing Collective, a Chicago-based non-profit focusing on ketamine-assisted therapy and psychedelic integration.

He talks about what he feels is one of the largest factors in our mental health crisis: the individualistic and neoliberal lens Western culture has placed on mental health and how it neglects the massive systemic and relational factors that are affecting us all. He digs into how we got so alienated and how psychedelics and non-ordinary states of consciousness can not only help us think critically and solve problems, but also move us out of this individualistic framework of healing and more into a collective one. How do we use psychedelics to fix our relationships and find our community?

He discusses:

• The challenge of knowing when to work for relationships and when to just end them, especially in the afterglow of a big experience
• Group ketamine experience vs. individual, how groups can help facilitators find patterns, and how ketamine works with somatic therapy
• His paper, “Psychedelic integration: An analysis of the concept and its practice” and his visual model of integration showing the different domains of our personal experience
• What he thinks will happen next in drug development: Will therapy be left out after Lykos’ failure with MDMA?
• The importance of moving beyond aggressive criticism and moving into world building

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Thomas Feegel: co-founder of Beond Ibogaine, an ibogaine treatment and research facility in Cancún, Mexico.

When Feegel first heard of ibogaine 16 years ago, he found that people were having great success, but nobody could recommend where to go for treatment. So he worked to create what was needed: a combination of a hospital, mental health treatment facility, retreat center, and resort, with the proper infrastructure in place, employees with ICU experience, exhaustive HIPAA-compliant admission criteria, regular data collection, and a major focus on safety.

Addressing the recent Rolling Stone article about the tragic death of a patient at Beond in 2022 (interestingly, 2 days after his initial dose), he discusses what he feels was inaccurate, largely related to what could be perceived as a suggestion that there wasn’t enough screening or that corners were cut. With no official reason given for the patient’s death, it brings into question just how safe one can be, especially with people whose bodies and hearts have been through so much. How much hidden harm is created by the stress of PTSD and addiction?

He discusses:

• The complexity of journalism and drawing conclusions from limited information
• The limitations of conventional addiction treatments and the sad numbers around how many people stick with rehab
• The importance of collecting as much data as possible about each patient, at regular intervals, prior to, during, and after the experience
• The need for a regulating group to create standards around admission and administration procedures for ibogaine

and more! 

We’re releasing this episode on Veterans Day because Beond’s program was co-developed by veterans, military medical personnel, and active-duty law enforcement officers who have seen how much ibogaine can help. If you know a vet who is struggling, be sure to let them know what's possible with psychedelic therapy. 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, David interviews Floris Wolswijk: senior project manager at Delphi; co-founder of FLO coaching; and founder of Blossom, an online informational hub collecting psychedelic courses, trials, companies, and over 2000 categorized research articles.

When Wolswijk began Blossom, he was barely able to fill a weekly newsletter, and now he’s adding a new study nearly every day, perfectly illustrating the exponential growth in psychedelic research. He talks about why so much research is happening (and why more isn’t), the trends he’s seen, the benefit in research changing people’s minds, and what he hopes for in the future. What can the research community learn from existing real world evidence, and how can retreat centers and underground communities contribute?

He also discusses:

• What culture is like in the Netherlands, where psilocybin truffles are legal
• Drug development and the possibilities of adjusting existing molecules
• What we can learn from the Lykos and FDA situation
• The economics of psychedelics and how insurance will likely be the next big conversation
• His work with FLO coaching, and how coaching, acceptance and commitment therapy, and psilocybin can work together

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Jessica Tracy: head of sales & partnerships at Enthea, a company that works with employers, unions, and employee assistance programs to be able to offer ketamine-assisted therapy (and psilocybin where it’s legal) to employees.

She talks about her path to psychedelics and how the shifts in her life led her to want to help others, finding Enthea and using her 15 years of experience in healthcare to make an immediate difference. She explains how the process works for an employee of a company Enthea works with, and the importance of evidence-based medical policy and rigorous screening to make sure people are getting the best intervention possible. One of Enthea’s largest clients is Dr. Bronner’s, who reported incredible improvements after employees used the benefit, with a 65% improvement in depression scores and an 86% improvement in PTSD.

She also discusses:

• How psychedelics bring awareness to what we need to work on
• Less-discussed treatment modalities, like electroconvulsive therapy (ECT), transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS), and stellate ganglion block (SGB)
• The inefficiency of traditional talk therapy: 50% of people only see really good benefits after 20 sessions
• The importance of viewing mental health as individualized care: What else can we offer to people who haven’t been helped by traditional methods?
• The research that she wants to see, like measures in how present or productive people are before and after experiences

and more!

For links, head to the show notes page.