Podcasts

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Mariah Gannessa, founder of Four Visions, a plant medicine platform rooted in sacred reciprocity and indigenous partnership. 

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-317/?ref=278

Mariah shares her decade-long apprenticeship with the Inga people of Colombia and her journey creating Four Visions as a reverent bridge between Amazonian healing traditions and modern seekers.

The conversation explores the Four Visions of the Yahé tradition, the nuances of cultural appropriation vs. cultural exchange, and the responsibilities of Western entrepreneurs engaging with indigenous medicines. Mariah also discusses how Four Visions reinvests in indigenous communities and why the concept of sacred reciprocity is central to her mission.

Join Paul F. Austin and Mariah Gannessa on August 21st at 10am PT / 1pm ET for Hapé 101 for Practitioners, Coaches & Guides, a free live webinar hosted through the Psychedelic Coaching Institute. Whether you're new to hapé or looking to deepen your practice, you'll gain practical, respectful guidance on working with this sacred Amazonian snuff—personally and professionally.

Mariah Gannessa has spent the last decade immersed in the healing cultures of the Amazon and has dedicated her life’s work to the plants and indigenous peoples of the rainforest. Her healing journey during her decade-long apprenticeship in study and service with the Inga tribe of Putumayo was a catalyst for her evolution as an entrepreneur, philanthropist and musician. Mariah acts as a bridge in the sharing of plant medicines with the world in order to support humanity’s healing. She is the founder of Four Visions, a global leader in supporting indigenous communities through direct commerce partnerships, donations, and sponsoring charitable initiatives. In partnership with her teacher, world-renowned healer and Ingano Botanist, Taita Juanito, she founded MAGIC Fund, spearheading projects to preserve the Amazonian peoples, their cultures, and lands. Her work in service is fully inspired by a vision to leave a legacy of a better Earth for future generations.

Highlights:

• How the Four Visions of Yagé shape healing
• Redefining sacred reciprocity in a globalized world
• A Western entrepreneur’s path through plant medicine apprenticeship
• Why cultural exchange is not always appropriation
• The role of reverence in spiritual entrepreneurship
• Bridging Amazonian wisdom with Western healing needs
• Building a mission-driven e-commerce platform
• Plant allies for the heart, grief, and dreaming
• Remembering ancestral wisdom in a disoriented world
• The medicine path as both business and spiritual devotion

Episode Links:

• Four Visions
• MAGIC Fund
• Hapé 101 for Practitioners, Coaches & Guides

Episode Sponsors:

• Psychedelic Coacing Institute's Intensive for Psychedelic Professionals in Costa Rica - a transformative retreat for personal and professional growth.

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

In this episode, Joe Moore is joined by Kat Murti, Executive Director of Students for Sensible Drug Policy (SSDP), the largest youth-led network working to end the war on drugs. SSDP organizes at the campus, local, state, federal, and international levels, with more than 100 chapters across the U.S. and sister organizations worldwide.

Kat shares her personal journey into drug policy reform, from witnessing DEA raids on AIDS patients in the 1990s to fighting for civil liberties as a student at UC Berkeley. She explains how SSDP empowers young people to challenge outdated laws and promote policies rooted in compassion, scientific evidence, and human rights.

• The War on Drugs as a War on Us: Kat’s early realizations about the drug war’s racism, injustice, and destruction of civil liberties.

• Her Path to SSDP: From working on California’s Prop 19 cannabis campaign to serving on SSDP’s board and eventually becoming Executive Director.

• Meta Censorship Campaign: Why Meta’s restrictions on drug education and harm reduction content harm communities, and how SSDP is organizing public pressure to protect freedom of information online.

• Forced Institutionalization & Executive Orders: Kat critiques recent federal moves to expand forced treatment, cuts to naloxone training programs, and the misguided use of tariffs as “solutions” to the overdose crisis.

• The Fight Against DEA Scheduling of DOI & DOC: Why these research chemicals are vital to neuroscience and medicine, how SSDP challenged the DEA in court, and what’s at stake for future research.

• Illogical Drug Policy & Careerism: How prohibition persists due to political incentives, propaganda, and entrenched bureaucratic interests.

• Building a Better Future: Realigning incentive structures, embracing harm reduction, and supporting community-based solutions to drug use.

• The war on drugs is deeply racist, anti-science, and erodes civil liberties.

• Meta’s censorship of harm reduction information actively endangers lives.

• Forced treatment doesn’t work—addressing social conditions and providing safe housing does.

• DOI and DOC, rarely if ever used recreationally, are critical to medical research, and scheduling them would halt decades of progress.

• Real reform means both ending prohibition and creating environments where people feel supported, connected, and empowered.

• Students for Sensible Drug Policy (SSDP): ssdp.org

• Kat Murti on Twitter/X: @KatMurti

• Kat Murti on Instagram: @KittyRevolution

• SSDP Petition against Meta Censorship: ssdp.org

Sean Webb enters the mind meld! Sean experienced a life altering awakening experience in which he felt his consciousness leave his body, encounter an overwhelming intelligence, merge with the universe and return with a transformed understanding of reality. The message was clear: consciousness is the fundamental fabric of existence. Sean’s journey eventually weaves through the mysterious intersection of UFO phenomena, psi, and altered states of awareness. How are mind and matter connected? Could UFO encounters be as much about consciousness as they are about craft? And what does that mean for humanity’s place in the cosmos? About Sean Webb is an author, seeker, experiencer. Sean has dedicated his life to exploring the nature of mind, emotion, and reality itself. His work blends neuroscience, philosophy, and personal transformation, often tackling topics from emotional mastery to UFOs and the frontiers of human perception. Sean Webb's links: Website: https://mindhackinghappiness.com/ Happiness AI Algorithm: https://www.instagram.com/p/DA1kd5IS9li/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mindhackinghappiness/ Links For Third Eye Drops 🌀 🥰 Support TED and join the community on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thirdeyedrops Hear our 300-plus other podcasts: 🎧 Apple Podcasts: thirdeyedrops.com/itunes 🎧 Spotify: https://shorturl.at/ahnB1 🌀 Website https://www.thirdeyedrops.com ✌️Follow Michael on Instagram https://instagram.com/third_eye_drops

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In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, host Paul F. Austin welcomes cultural historian and acclaimed author Mike Jay.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-316/?ref=278

Together they explore the untold history of nitrous oxide, psychedelic experimentation in the Romantic era, and the deeper cultural and philosophical roots of psychedelic science.

Mike shares insights from his latest book, Free Radicals, highlighting how figures like Humphry Davy and William James helped shape psychedelic thought long before the 1960s. The conversation weaves through ancient San Pedro rituals, colonial attempts to suppress peyote use, and the divergent paths of modern psychedelic medicine.

From poetic self-experimentation to medicalized models, Mike unpacks the historical tensions between grassroots healing and institutional control—and what this means for the future of psychedelic culture.

Mike Jay is a British author and cultural historian who has written widely on the history of drugs, consciousness, and medical science. His books include Mescaline: A Global History of the First Psychedelic, Psychonauts: Drugs and the Making of the Modern Mind, and Free Radicals: How a Group of Romantic Experimenters Gave Birth to Psychedelic Science. Mike contributes regularly to The London Review of Books, The New York Review of Books, and The Wall Street Journal.

Highlights:

• How early scientists used nitrous oxide for inner exploration
• Romantic poets as the original psychedelic self-experimenters
• Parallels between Humphry Davy and Alexander Shulgin
• What William James learned from nitrous, not mescaline
• Colonial suppression of peyote and indigenous resilience
• The enduring symbolism of San Pedro in Andean ritual
• How the counterculture reinterpreted Native practices
• Why modern psychedelic medicine may be repeating history
• The role of finance in shaping current therapy models
• Looking ahead: divergent futures of psychedelic healing

Episode links: 

• Mike’s website
• Mike’s new book, Free Radicals
• Mescaline: A Global History of the First Psychedelic
• Psychonauts: Drugs and the Making of the Modern Mind
• Manvir Singh’s article in The Guardian
• “The Peyote Dance” by Antonin Artaud

Episode sponsors: 

• Psychedelic Coacing Institute's Intensive for Psychedelic Professionals in Costa Rica - a transformative retreat for personal and professional growth.
• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

Episode 08 - Tori Deal: The Challenge Within

This is definitely one of the more unique episodes to ever happen on this podcast! Tori Deal is one of the more well known contestants and breakout stars of MTVs reality TV super power show, "The Challenge." No matter what you may or may not think of reality TV, I encourage you to open your mind and step into the inspiring story and force that is Tori. Our conversation ranged from finding the depths of despair even while surrounded by success to psychedelic and mental health breakthroughs and how using ones platform for good can be so rewarding. 

Tori Deal is a passionate creator, writer, and fierce champion of MTV’s The Challenge. Recognized by Variety as one of the Top 40 Influential Women in reality TV, she’s dedicated to bridging the gap between purpose and productivity through storytelling. With an audience nearing a million followers across all social media platforms, Tori is passionate about sharing her creative projects and inspiring others to embrace self-love and personal growth. Through her work as a certified meditation coach and author she continues to extend her mission to inspire, uplift, and empower people to live intentionally and authentically.

In this episode, Dr. Genesee Herzberg joins to discuss the ways ketamine therapy can be combined with other healing modalities. Dr. Herzberg is a clinical psychologist and co-founder and director of Sage Integrative Health, an integrative psychedelic therapy clinic and training center in the SF Bay Area. She worked as a therapist on the MDMA for PTSD clinical trials and co-edited the book Integral Psychedelic Therapy.

In this conversation, Dr. Herzberg explains how somatic therapy, touch therapy, bodywork, and movement support trauma processing. She also highlights the benefits of combining ketamine with acupuncture, craniosacral therapy, and functional medicine—including nutritional and hormonal assessments—to address physiological contributors to mental health. In closing, Dr. Herzberg emphasizes trauma-informed, team-based, and individualized approach to psychedelic healing, where ketamine acts as a bridge between psychological, somatic, and biomedical treatments.

In this episode, you'll hear:

• How somatic therapy is used within ketamine therapy sessions

• How ketamine helps quiet the default mode network to support therapeutic processing

• Ensuring safety during physical and movement-based therapies 

• The importance of establishing boundaries and explicit consent for therapeutic work that involves touch

• Dr. Herzberg’s first hand experience of the reciprocal benefits of combining acupuncture and ketamine therapy

• Using functional medicine and nutrition therapy to support the therapeutic process with ketamine

Quotes:

“I see ketamine, especially at lower psychoanalytic doses… as a support in turning down the volume on emotional and physical pain, which can then help us to better experience them. So I think of it as a sort of ‘re-associative’.” [4:08]

“Another aspect of the healing potential of therapy in general has to do with a therapeutic relationship: developing this sense that there's someone who cares about you, who's there to support you, who's going to be right there with you as you're dropping into your scariest and darkest places. And touch is one of the best ways to communicate that.”  [13:53]

“Acupuncture can help the nervous system to relax and help the system to open to the ketamine such that we are able to more fully receive the benefits of the medicine and feel the effects of it.” [25:07]

Links:

Sage Integrative Health website 

Dr. Herzberg on LinkedIn 

Sage Integrative Health on LinkedIn 

Sage Integrative Health on Instagram

Sage Integrative Health on Facebook  

Integral Psychedelic Therapy: The Non-Ordinary Art of Psychospiritual Healing edited by Jason A. Butler, Genesee Herzberg, and Richard Louis Miller

Previous episode: Psychedelic Adjunct Series: Somatic Therapy with Jenna Valentine, DACM, LAc

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode of the Drug Science Podcast, we speak with Sam Bloomfield, founder of PsyEdu, and Dr. Eddie Jacobs, the first person to complete a doctorate in psychedelic ethics. Drawing on their backgrounds in education and ethics, they explore why these perspectives are essential to the evolving field of psychedelics. They also discuss the role of trials, clinics, and retreats within the broader psychedelic ecosystem, highlighting a major blind spot: the vast majority of psychedelic experiences occur outside of these settings. The conversation additionally examines how understandings of medicine often must adapt to the unique nature of psychedelics. Throughout, they underscore the importance of education in driving long-term policy change that ensures safer, more equitable, and more ethical psychedelic access.

Psychedelic Training in the UK

PsyEdu

Beckley Foundation

Psychedelic Ethics 

Psilocybin

MDMA

MAPS

Public Attitudes to Psilocybin-Assisted Therapy

HOPE Statement

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, host Paul F. Austin welcomes Brian Robertson—creator of Holacracy and founder of Ledgeway Sangha—for a thought-provoking conversation at the intersection of organizational design, spiritual community, and psychedelic practice.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-315/?ref=278

Best known for reimagining how companies structure authority through Holacracy, Brian now brings his systems-level insight into the realm of psychedelic spirituality. He shares the origin and mission of Ledgeway Sangha, a legal psychedelic church rooted in peer-to-peer healing, communal practice, and non-dogmatic love. Together, Paul and Brian explore how this innovative model bypasses conventional hierarchy, integrates softer entheogens like 2C-B and 6-APB, and builds a path toward legal protection for churches operating outside mainstream psychedelic frameworks.

Brian Robertson is best known for creating Holacracy, the most comprehensive framework in the world today for running self-managed companies using a decentralized power structure in lieu of a traditional management hierarchy. He’s founded and built many organizations over the past 30 years as an entrepreneur, including HolacracyOne, which helps companies use self-management to unleash creativity and empowered leadership, and the software company GlassFrog, which helps both traditional and self-managed companies drive organizational transparency, agility, and alignment to purpose.

To date, tens of thousands of companies in over 50 countries have embraced his pioneering methods and ideas, and his frequent public speaking seamlessly weaves between business, management, consciousness, and love. Brian is currently focused on building Ledgeway Sangha, an entheogenic church and community-building organization that’s harnessing psychedelics to help people release judgments and resistances into loving acceptance of all that is.

Highlights:

• From Holacracy to entheogenic spirituality
• Why Ledgeway Sangha has no doctrine or belief system
• Love as the norming force in community
• 2C-B and 6-APB as self-integrating medicines
• The case for subtle, sovereign psychedelic journeys
• A new model of psychedelic integration through consistency
• Why hierarchy undermines safe psychedelic containers
• Legal strategies under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act
• Creating a church for mystics, not priests
• Poetry, presence, and redefining spiritual transmission

Episode links: 

• Ledgeway Sangha
• Holacracy
• Brian’s social media

Episode Sponsor:

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout
• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave’s Psychedelic Coaching Institute.

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Dr. Dan Attrell of The Modern Hermeticist enters the mind meld! 

Video Version

Dr. Dan Attrell is a classicist, translator of magical texts like the Picatrix, and the creator of The Modern Hermeticist. We riff on the surprising connections between the esoteric, Platonism, and Hermeticism, and Terence McKenna. Why do ancient metaphysics — ideas like the One, the daimon, and the chain of being — still resonate in the age of UFOs, and simulation theory? What does Terence McKenna have to do with this? Does be belong in the lineage of Platonists? We also dive into: The hidden structure of reality, visionary entity encounters, how ancient esoteric philosophy maps onto modern mystical experience, why symbols, language, and consciousness are gateways to higher worlds. If you're curious about the intersections between ancient wisdom, consciousness, psychedelics, and the nature of reality, this mind meld is for you.

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🌀 Website 

In this episode, Joe Moore is joined by Mareesa Stertz and Tania Abdul, the visionaries behind Sphinx Gate, one of Burning Man 2025’s most ambitious and mythic art installations. Inspired by The NeverEnding Story, Sphinx Gate features two towering 34-foot sphinxes and a fully immersive, transformative art experience designed to help participants gain a deeper understanding of themselves.

The trio explores how art and play can catalyze personal and collective transformation—without the need for psychedelics—by helping people reframe inner challenges as quests for growth. They discuss the project's mythic inspiration, how it has evolved into a “transmersive” self-discovery journey, and how community co-creation has made this dream real. With rituals, interactive stations, laser-eyed sphinxes, and an oracle offering personalized missions, Sphinx Gate blends storytelling, inner work, and spectacle.

They also touch on the deeper intention: shifting culture by normalizing integration, peer support, and emotional exploration—through joy. From honoring Indigenous land stewards to designing future traveling versions and permanent “Museums of Self-Exploration,” this project is just the beginning.

Topics Covered:

• What Sphinx Gate is and how it works

• The archetypal and cultural roots of sphinxes

• How The NeverEnding Story inspired the vision

• Designing integration spaces without psychedelics

• Co-creation, community magic, and scaling big dreams

• The emotional and mystical potential of participatory art

• Fantasia Fridays, Black Rock Philharmonic, and more playa programming

• Vision for life beyond Burning Man

Support Sphinx Gate: Help bring this mythic experience to life and fund its future by donating at TheSphinxGate.com

Follow: IG: @thesphinxgate www.thesphinxgate.com

In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Joe Moore sits down with Chad Charles — educator, mentor, and practitioner specializing in 5-MeO-DMT therapy.

Chad shares his decade-long journey working with 5-MeO-DMT, emphasizing the importance of:

• Practitioner training and mentorship

• Personalized, therapeutic alliances

• The nuanced understanding of dissociative states

• Ethics in standardized clinical dosing

• A trauma-informed approach to psychedelic care

He also introduces his upcoming research project, analyzing 500+ one-on-one sessions to illuminate best practices and ethical frameworks in the 5-MeO-DMT space. This is a must-listen for anyone passionate about harm reduction, responsible facilitation, and the future of psychedelic therapy.

🕒 Episode Breakdown

• 00:00 – Introduction and Guest Welcome

• 00:41 – Chad Charles' Background and Work

• 02:18 – Defining 5-MeO-DMT

• 05:28 – Breathwork and Therapy

• 09:22 – First Experiences with 5-MeO-DMT

• 18:00 – Training and Ethical Considerations

• 30:41 – Conscious Surrender vs. Submission Experience

• 31:18 – Ethical Considerations in Psychedelic Research

• 32:02 – Understanding Dissociative Doses

• 33:26 – Empowering Individuals Through Therapeutic Alliance

• 34:26 – Challenges in Contemporary Science

• 38:02 – Good Practice vs. Malpractice in Psychedelic Therapy

• 41:51 – Personal Experience and Practitioner Responsibility

• 46:52 – Addressing Malpractice and Corrective Experiences

• 01:00:11 – Physical Health Considerations in Psychedelic Therapy

• 01:02:21 – Future Directions and Research in Psychedelic Therapy

• 01:05:43 – Conclusion and Contact Information

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Dr. Vass Eliopoulos, co-founder of Longevity Health and a pioneer at the intersection of regenerative medicine, longevity science, and psychedelics.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-314/?ref=278

Dr. Vass shares his journey from emergency medicine to a proactive, prevention-based approach to health optimization for high performers.

Dr. Vass shares why today’s healthcare system fails to address the root causes of disease, the synergistic potential of psychedelics, stem cells, peptides, and hyperbaric oxygen therapy, and how chronic stress and inflammation underlie many modern conditions. He also outlines why psychedelics may be essential in reversing chronic inflammation and treating neurodegenerative diseases—and how prevention, not pathology, should guide the future of medicine.

Dr. Vassily Eliopoulos (Dr. Vass) is the Co-Founder and Chief Medical Officer of Longevity Health, a cutting-edge regenerative medicine clinic in Boulder, Colorado. A former ER physician and Peace Corps volunteer, Dr. Vass now helps high performers optimize their health through advanced diagnostics, regenerative therapies, and personalized plans. A black belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, avid climber, and kayaker, he brings deep experience in resilience and recovery to his clinical work.

Highlights:

• Why Vass left emergency medicine for longevity health
• COVID as a catalyst for self-directed wellness
• The failure of “sick care” to promote true health
• Psychedelics as first-line treatments for mental health
• Chronic stress, inflammation, and disease progression
• Synergies between psychedelics, stem cells, and peptides
• Prevention vs. pathology in modern medicine
• Neurodegeneration as chronic brain injury
• Future directions for regenerative and psychedelic therapies

Curious about becoming a certified psychedelic coach? Join Paul F. Austin Thursday, July 31 2025, 10:00 AM PT for a free info session exploring the Psychedelic Coaching Institute’s Practitioner Certification Program—an immersive training that blends science, ceremony, and real-world coaching to help you lead others through lasting transformation. Learn More.

Episode Links:

• Longevity Health Clinic
• Dr. Vassily’s Instagram

Episode Sponsor:

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

***Get 50% off the best energy potion on the market, Magic Mind!  .Code teye50 at checkout!***

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Video Version 👈

Esotericist and visionary artist, Jake Kobrin enters the mind meld! Jake is a visionary artist, practicing esotericist, and author of The Path Within. His work explores the intersection of inner transformation, mystical experience and creativity. In this episode, we riff on the hidden connections between the occult, entity encounters, and the UFO phenomenon. From Crowley, Parsons and the "HGA" to the possible ancient correlaries to ufo phenomena, we explore how ancient esoteric frameworks might help us decode the modern mythos of the phenomenon and what it means for the evolution of consciousness.

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🌀 Website 

Following our recent conversation with Dr. Robin Carhart-Harris on the neuroscience of SSRIs and psychedelics, this bonus episode takes the next step—focusing on clinical realities, tapering strategies, and patient safety.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-313b/?ref=278

Dr. Dave Rabin—a board-certified psychiatrist, neuroscientist, and co-founder of Apollo Neuro—joins Paul F. Austin for a candid, protocol-driven conversation. Together, they unpack why combining SSRIs with psychedelics can be dangerous, how to safely taper with support tools like ketamine and CBDA, and how to prepare clients for deeper psychedelic work.

If you’re a facilitator, therapist, or simply someone navigating antidepressants and interested in microdosing, this episode offers practical, medically-grounded insights.

Highlights:

• How SSRIs blunt emotional range and alter awareness
• The neuroscience of serotonin and psychedelic receptors
• Serious risks of serotonin syndrome when mixing with SSRIs
• Ketamine’s role in tapering and unlocking neuroplasticity
• Practical tools to regulate the nervous system during SSRI withdrawal
• Recommended psilocybin strains for sensitive or anxious clients
• How long-term SSRI use may (or may not) affect psychedelic response
• Safety-first protocols for psychedelic integration
• The future of microdosing as a sustainable antidepressant approach

Episode Links:

• Dr. Dave Rabin’s Website
• Dr. Dave on Instagram
• Dr. Dave on LinkedIn
• Apollo Neuro
• Last week’s bonus episode with Dr. Robin Carhart-Harris: SSRIs vs. Psychedelics: From Blunting to Rebooting 
• Episode 218 with Dr. Dave Rabin
• Episode 74 with Dr. Dave Rabin

Episode Sponsor

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

In this episode of Psychedelics Today, Joe Moore sits down with Alan Davis, Associate Professor at Ohio State University, to explore the evolving landscape of Ibogaine research and its therapeutic potential.

Alan offers a deep dive into the Iboga Patient Survey, a groundbreaking initiative collecting real-world data on the safety and efficacy of Ibogaine—particularly for those struggling with substance use disorders and mental health challenges. The conversation sheds light on the need for rigorous, community-informed research that could pave the way toward FDA approval and increased access for patients, including veterans dealing with trauma.

They also discuss the complexities of clinical trials, the tension between state and federal regulations, and the growing influence of corporate interests in psychedelic research. Alan emphasizes the importance of ethical transparency, community collaboration, and maintaining scientific integrity as the field grows.

If you're curious about the intersection of psychedelic medicine, clinical research, and patient safety, this is a must-listen episode.

• 00:00 – Introduction and Guest Welcome

• 00:53 – Reflecting on COVID-19's Psychological Impact

• 01:29 – Introducing the Iboga Patient Survey

• 01:46 – History and Goals of Ibogaine Research

• 02:41 – Challenges in Conducting Clinical Trials

• 03:14 – Importance of Real-World Safety Data

• 06:55 – Personal Interest in Ibogaine

• 08:56 – Veterans and Trauma: A Personal Connection

• 10:53 – Reintegration and Emotional Processing

• 15:29 – Survey Participation and Accessibility

• 18:25 – Building Partnerships and Overcoming Challenges

• 21:06 – Ensuring Safety and Transparency

• 31:49 – Community and Academic Collaboration

• 33:06 – Survey Design and Future Research Directions

• 36:50 – Momentum in Psychedelic Research

• 37:48 – State vs. Federal Regulation

• 39:23 – Challenges in Psychedelic Treatment

• 43:01 – Corporate Interests and Scientific Objectivity

• 47:20 – Ketamine and Collaborative Research

• 51:56 – Ibogaine Patient Survey

• 57:55 – Psychedelics and Pain Research

• 01:07:22 – Conclusion and Future Directions

In this episode, Charmaine Husum joins to discuss how art therapy can be a powerful tool for psychedelic preparation and integration. Charmaine is a Registered Art Therapist, Somatic Counsellor and Kundalini Yoga Teacher with over 12 years of experience supporting psychedelic preparation and integration. Her courses train professionals globally using specifically developed protocols in trauma-informed, harm-reduction practices, with her book, Psychedelics and Art Therapy: A Trauma-Informed Manual for Somatic Self Expression (Routledge, 2025), endorsed by numerous experts in the field including Stan and Brigitte Grof.

In this discussion, Charmaine distinguishes between art as therapy and art therapy, emphasizing that the latter involves clinically informed, trauma-sensitive practices that externalize inner experiences to support healing. She outlines structured protocols used before and after psychedelic experiences, including creating visual representations of inner strength, setting intentions, and integrating experiences through multi-phase art exercises. Throughout, Charmaine emphasizes choice, embodiment, and the historical roots of art in altered states, offering a rich alternative for those seeking non-verbal, experiential ways to work through trauma and transformation.

In this episode, you'll hear:

• The types of art and materials employed in art therapy

• How art therapy can be employed to support preparation for a psychedelic experience

• Using art therapy for grounding and restabilization following an intense psychedelic journey

• Judith Herman’s three stage model of healing trauma

• Why drawing a self portrait with one’s non-dominant hand could be therapeutic

• Pursuing shadow work in art therapy

• Working with a client’s perfectionism in art therapy

Quotes:

“[Art therapy] is not about making art, actually. It's about being in the present moment, about moving materials, about allowing for often a cathartic release, and giving expression to what we often don't have words for.” [3:14]

“Art therapy isn't just about making the art, it's about processing the art afterwards.” [7:48]

“Art therapy is very helpful when we're trying to express something that's ineffable—something without words—which is… at the heart of psychedelics. There's often no words to describe what our experience has been. And so using creativity can be a real help there.” [29:06]

Links:

Centre of the HeArt website

Centre of the HeArt on Instagram

Centre of the HeArt on Facebook

Charmaine on LinkedIn

Charmaine’s book: Psychedelics and Art Therapy: A Trauma-Informed Manual for Somatic Self Expression

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode of the Drug Science Podcast, we meet with Dr. Joe Tafur, MD, an integrative Family Physician, curandero, author and speaker. He discusses his book, The Fellowship of the River, exploring the role of spiritual healing in modern healthcare. Within this episode. Tafur further delves into topics such as biological and psychological links to Generational trauma as well as the relationship between spiritual practice and healing. 

Dr Joe Tafur

Modern Spirit

Medicine Song

Fellowship of the river

Intro into Therapeutic psychedelics

Depression

Peyote

Ayahuasca

Emotional dysregulation

Mamos

Inner child

Psoriasis 

Migraine

Allostatic load

Allostasis 

Epigenetics

Meditation

Support the Podcast Link

In this engaging episode of the Psychedelics Today podcast, host Joe Moore sits down with Karina Bashir, an attorney working at the intersection of law, business ethics, and psychedelics.

Karina, of counsel with Antithesis Law and an active member of the psychedelic community, shares her unique journey from human rights advocacy into the evolving field of psychedelic law. The conversation explores her presentation at Harvard on psychedelics and monotheistic religions, and her efforts to bridge the gap between Islamic communities and psychedelic-assisted healing.

She discusses the legal frameworks she navigates to support clients in the psychedelic ecosystem, the spiritual depth of Sufism, and the expansive tradition of Islamic philosophy and mysticism.

If you’re intrigued by the intersections of religion, law, and psychedelic healing, this episode offers deep insights and hopeful perspectives.

00:00 – Introduction and Guest Welcome 00:19 – Meeting at the Psychedelic Safety Institute 01:04 – Karina's Legal Work and Background 04:03 – Human Rights and Migration Work 07:30 – Psychedelics as a Human Rights Issue 18:01 – Legal Challenges in the Psychedelic Space 23:03 – Islam and Psychedelics 28:15 – The Fatwa Process and Islamic Scholars 28:57 – Building Momentum in the Muslim Community 29:08 – Islamic Law and Psychedelics 29:30 – Engaging Muslim Scholars and Community 33:45 – Sufism and Islamic Mysticism 35:09 – Access to Psychedelic Medicine for Muslims 36:49 – Positive Responses and Growing Interest 39:17 – Sufism's Rich Traditions and Practices 40:51 – Intersection of Sufism and Psychedelics 44:14 – Islamic Cosmology and Psychedelic Experiences 51:26 – Concluding Thoughts and Future Directions Attorney, Ethics Advocate, and Program Director at North Star Project

Karina Bashir is an accomplished attorney and thought leader working at the intersection of law, ethics, and psychedelics to support a new paradigm of care and equity. She serves as Of Counsel with Antithesis Law, PC, advising clients on corporate formation, risk mitigation, compliance, and ethical best practices. As Program Director at the North Star Project, she advocates for values-driven growth in the psychedelic field through the development of dynamic ethical guidelines. Karina also sits on the Board of Directors of the Psychedelic Bar Association and serves as a steward of its Religious Use Committee.

Her work also bridges Islamic thought and psychedelic healing, exploring how spiritual traditions—particularly Sufism—can inform modern approaches to wellness and therapeutic care. She is passionate about increasing access and cultural understanding within Muslim communities engaging with psychedelics.

A Fulbright and Gates Cambridge Scholar, Karina holds a JD from UC Berkeley, an MPhil in International Relations from the University of Cambridge, and a BA from the University of Michigan.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Dr. Dan Engle—psychiatrist, neurologist, and integrative medicine pioneer—for a profound discussion on psychedelics, brain health, and healing. Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-313/?ref=278 Dr. Dan shares his personal journey through traumatic brain injuries and recovery through both Western neurology and indigenous plant medicine traditions. They explore neuroplasticity vs. neurogenesis, ibogaine’s potential in brain injury recovery, and how belief, awe, and prayer shape healing outcomes. Dr. Dan also reflects on lessons psychiatry can learn from shamanic practice—highlighting the importance of service, community, and ceremony in catalyzing transformation.

Dr. Dan Engle is a psychiatrist whose work bridges regenerative medicine, psychedelic research, integrative spirituality, and peak performance. He is founder of Full Spectrum Medicine, a psychedelic integration platform, and Thank You Life, a nonprofit expanding access to psychedelic therapies. He is author of The Concussion Repair Manual and A Dose of Hope: A Story of MDMA-Assisted Psychotherapy.

Episode Highlights: 

• Healing from traumatic brain injury
• Iboga vs. Ibogaine: Benefits and risks
• Neuroplasticity vs. neurogenesis explained
• The science of awe and belief in healing
• Shamanic lessons for modern psychiatry
• Critical learning periods after psychedelic sessions
• Psychedelics as clarogens and renewing agents
• The placebo effect and collective service
• Texas legislation and Ibogaine research

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In this deeply important episode of Psychedelics Today, Joe Moore is joined by Kristen Nash, MPH, and returning guest Erica Siegel, LCSW, for a nuanced conversation about risk reduction, harm prevention, and ethical education in the psychedelic space.

Kristen shares the powerful and heartbreaking story of losing her 21-year-old son after a tragic psychedelic-related incident. Motivated by this loss and her background in public health, she founded the Coalition for Psychedelic Safety and Education and launched the Before You Trip campaign—an educational initiative piloting in Colorado aimed at helping Gen Z users assess their readiness and safety before engaging with psychedelics.

Erica contributes her extensive experience from Nest Harm Reduction and Shine Collective, emphasizing the need for peer-based support, non-abstinence frameworks, and trauma-informed approaches. She highlights common pitfalls such as untrained facilitators, predatory behavior, and the pervasive issue of gaslighting in psychedelic communities.

Together, they explore the gaps in current education efforts, the dangers of glorifying substances without context, and the moral injuries that can occur when people are harmed or dismissed by the very communities meant to support them. The conversation calls for broader public funding, lived-experience-informed leadership, and transparency around psychological and relational risks—not just physiological harm.

The episode also touches on poly-substance use, the limitations of existing drug harm scales, and the importance of setting, support, and intention. With a shared commitment to saving lives and empowering users, Kristen and Erica offer actionable insights and heartfelt reflections on making this space safer for everyone.

Listeners are encouraged to follow and support both Before You Trip and Shine Collective to help expand harm reduction education and survivor advocacy.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin is joined by renowned neuroscientist Dr. Robin Carhart-Harris and microdosing policy advocate John Downs for a replay of a live event originally held on June 10th, Microdosing vs. SSRIs: What’s Happening in the Brain and Why It Matters. Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-312b/?ref=278 Together, they explore the scientific distinctions between SSRIs and psychedelics, focusing on neuroimaging, brain entropy, emotional processing, and the REBUS model. Dr. Carhart-Harris shares key insights from landmark studies on psilocybin therapy and discusses the evidence (and limitations) around microdosing. John Downs closes the conversation with an update on the Microdosing Collective’s efforts to shift policy and expand access.

Robin Carhart-Harris, PhD is a neuropharmacologist, psychologist, and Ralph Metzner Distinguished Professor in Neurology and Psychiatry at the University of California, San Francisco. He leads the Psychedelics Division at UCSF’s Neuroscape and formerly founded and led the Centre for Psychedelic Research at Imperial College London.

John Downs is Executive Director of the Microdosing Collective, advocating for responsible policy reform and legal access to microdosing. With 25 years’ experience in sales, business development, and emerging markets, John helps individuals optimize mindset, performance, and purpose. Episode Highlights:

• Why SSRIs blunt, while psychedelics reset emotional processing
• How psilocybin compares to antidepressants in clinical trials
• Brain entropy, plasticity, and the REBUS model explained
• The role of the default mode network in mental health
• Why microdosing research is still so limited
• Ketamine vs. psilocybin: differences in brain mechanisms
• Is serotonin syndrome a real microdosing risk?
• Can psychedelics reverse long-term SSRI effects?
• The Microdosing Collective’s mission for policy reform
• What Robin Carhart-Harris’ upcoming book will explore

Episode Links:

• Robin’s lab & upcoming book
• Microdosing Collective
• Join Dr. Robin Carhart-Harris at our Practitioner Intensive (November 5–10, Costa Rica)

Episode Sponsors:

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout
• Psychedelic Coacing Isntitute's  Intensive for Psychedelic Professionals in Costa Rica - a transformative retreat for personal and professional growth.

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Chris Ramsay of Area 52 Investigations returns to the transmission! On his channel, Chris dives into UFO lore and explores the edges of his consciousness via his investigations. In this episode, we explore the idea that humanity may be entangled in a hidden alien control system—one that lurks not only in the shadows of official secrecy, but in the oceans, our myths, and perhaps even within consciousness itself. We dive into infamous lore like the Lacerta Files and the viral 4chan alien whistleblower thread. We wrestle with deeper questions about consciousness, the human condition and the meaning of life.

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In this episode, Joe Moore speaks with award-winning science journalist Erica Rex about her personal experience participating in psychedelic research, her upcoming book Seeing What Is There: My Search for Sanity in the Psychedelic Era, and the complex story behind the recently published Religious Leader Psilocybin Study from Johns Hopkins and NYU.

They examine:

Erica's firsthand experience as a participant in the original 2012 study that helped launch Roland Griffiths’ prominence in psychedelic science.

The goals and outcomes of the Religious Leader Study, which sought to explore how psilocybin might impact religious leaders’ effectiveness and connection to their communities.

The methodological and ethical problems that plagued the study.

The influence of perennialist frameworks and the limitations of measures like the Mystical Experience Questionnaire (MEQ).

Broader concerns about the infiltration of religious ideology and lack of rigor in psychedelic science.

A deep critique of the institutional systems that allowed flawed research processes to go unchecked — and how these patterns risk repeating the mistakes of the 1960s psychedelic wave.

Joe and Erica also dive into how modern psychedelic science struggles to reconcile subjective experience, spirituality, and the reductionist standards of academic research. They discuss Matt Johnson’s paper critiquing “psychedelic consciousness” framing and explore whether our current scientific tools are capable of capturing the depth of psychedelic experience.

Erica’s forthcoming book, slated for release in January 2026, blends memoir, neuroscience, and social critique. It offers a critical insider’s view of the psychedelic renaissance—its promise, pitfalls, and the ways it mirrors broader systemic issues in science and culture.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, host Paul F. Austin welcomes back J. Ashley T. Booth, LCSW, MS—a longtime friend, therapist, and psychedelic pioneer.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-312/?ref=278

Ashley shares her journey from community activism to clinical work with ketamine and MDMA, and her new illustrated guide to IFS, Quieting the Storm Within.

J. Ashley T. Booth, LCSW, MS has led the Southern California Psychedelic Society, served as MAPS trial coordinator for MDMA-assisted PTSD therapy, co-founded a ketamine clinic, and offers IFS, Hakomi, integration, and harm reduction training. Her illustrated picture book introduces IFS concepts through visuals and metaphor.

Highlights:

• Ashley’s 8‑year evolution from community to clinical work
• The origin and intent behind Quieting the Storm Within
• Clouds & sun: A visual metaphor for the internal landscape

In this episode, Seth Mehr, MD joins to share his expertise on safety planning prior to a payment undergoing psilocybin therapy. After a 20 year career as an Emergency Medicine physician, Seth founded Cascade Psychedelic Medicine in 2021, treating clients with depression, anxiety and PTSD with psychedelic ketamine therapy. He also serves as the Health & Safety Director and a state licensed psilocybin facilitator at the Innertrek service center in Portland, Oregon.

In this conversation, Dr. Mehr outlines key risk categories for psilocybin therapy: medical conditions, medication interactions, and mental health history. He emphasizes the importance of individualized safety planning over binary yes/no decisions. Dr. Mehr discusses specific considerations such as cardiovascular issues, diabetes, serotonergic medications, substance use disorders, suicidal ideation, and family history of psychosis. The conversation also covers strategies for mitigating risk, including delaying treatment, contingency plans, improving support systems, and ensuring informed consent. Throughout, Dr. Mehr stresses a collaborative, nuanced approach that balances potential benefits with careful preparation and personalized care.

In this episode, you'll hear:

• Stories from Dr. Mehr’s practice of helping patients with different conditions and histories ensure safe psilocybin experiences

• Interactions between GLP-1 agonists and psilocybin

• How Dr. Mehr works with patients who have family histories or psychosis

• Harm reduction practices which leverage other psychedelics or non-psychedelic interventions to help prepare a client for a psilocybin session

• Why insulin dependent diabetes can be a contraindication for psychedelic therapy

• What medication combinations can increase the risk of serotonin toxicity with psilocybin 

• Supporting clients experiencing spiritual emergency following psilocybin therapy

• Safety considerations when working with clients who have a history of seizures

• The importance of having contingency plans if medical emergencies arise during psilocybin therapy

• The intricacies of providing fully informed consent for psychedelic therapy
  

Quotes:

“There is some evidence now that taking a single serotonergic agent—say, taking Lexapro—and no other medications that increase the risk of serotonin toxicity seems safe where I am not at this point recommending that people stop, skip, or taper a single SSRI in preparation for a psilocybin session due to safety.” [12:20]

“One of the difficulties with making these decisions or speaking with some confidence or authority on the matter is that the clinical trials that have been done largely exclude people with lots of conditions—family history and specifically first degree relatives with history of psychosis and bipolar disorder… So we have anecdotal evidence, we have population based surveys to go by. And so when I talk to clients about this, I speak from a place of humility.” [27:30]

“I always emphasize to clients that while we're talking about a specific safety issue like serotonin toxicity, we don't want to trade that for psychological instability and crisis and declare success because we've helped somebody taper off of a medication that seems less safe and now they aren't sleeping, they're agitated, they're depression is worse, their suicidality is worse. So we have to take a holistic approach to this and consider the totality of what's happening with that client.”  [36:45]

“There are so many different components to trying to set somebody up for success rather than a yes/no, black and white approach [to psilocybin therapy].” [48:44]

Links:

Cascade Psychedelic Medicine website

InnerTrek website

Managing Medical Risk In Patients Seeking Psilocybin Therapy CME/CE Course

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode of the drug science Podcast, we meet with Mike Jay, author and 2024 Cheiron Book Prize winner who has written extensively on scientific and medical history with a special interest in Psychedelics. 

In this Podcast, he discusses with us his newest book, Free Radicals: How a Group of Romantic Experimenters Gave Birth to Psychedelic Science, which tells the story of early invention and experimentation with Nitrous Oxide (Laughing gas). He discusses various key figures at this time and the work they conducted, including Humphry Davy and Thomas Beddoes as well as discussing early theories into the potential use of gas in medicine which lead to the development of the Pneumatic Institute. Further, they discuss how this 18th-century research links to the psychedelic renaissance 

Free Radicals: How a Group of Romantic Experimenters Gave Birth to Psychedelic Science

Mike Jay Author

Humphrey Davy

Humphry Davy Book

Thomas Beddoes

Joseph Priestley

Davis Giddy

Miners lung

Tuberculosis

Michael Pollan

Default mode network

Mescaline Drug Science Podcast with Mike Jay

Link in show notes 

In this expansive episode of Psychedelics Today, Joe Moore sits down with author and cultural theorist Daniel Pinchbeck to explore the evolving—and increasingly contested—role of psychedelics in society. From the hopeful spirit of transformation that animated earlier psychedelic movements to the sobering reality of biotech, branding, and political entanglement, Daniel offers a candid diagnosis of where we are—and where we might be headed.

Reflecting on Psychedelic Science 2025, Daniel discusses the event’s stark shift toward commercialization and industry influence. He contrasts this with his earlier work on Evolver, a movement that sought to integrate psychedelics with permaculture, alternative economics, and cultural awakening. Together, Joe and Daniel examine how the field’s idealistic origins have been increasingly subjected to capitalist co-option.

They also dive into deeper philosophical terrain—discussing monistic idealism, Rudolf Steiner, and the suppression of mystical and paranormal dimensions in the push to medicalize and sanitize psychedelics for mainstream acceptance. Daniel warns of the dangers of ignoring the shadow, including psychic fragmentation and what he calls "entity attachment" from ungrounded use.

The conversation ranges from tech billionaires on ketamine to the geopolitical threat of authoritarianism, the weaponization of AI, and the quiet complicity of many in the psychedelic space who avoid political engagement. Daniel shares his current projects, including his Substack newsletter and a new seminar, Breaking the AI Barrier.

This is a timely, unflinching exploration of psychedelics as both medicine and mirror—revealing the best and worst of our collective intentions. Can we reclaim the visionary potential of these tools from the grip of capital and control?

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes anthropologist and author Dr. Manvir Singh to explore the enduring power of shamanism as a psychological and cultural technology.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-311/?ref=278

Singh discusses insights from his fieldwork with the Mentawai people and Amazonian Yopo shamans, explaining how ritual, performance, and belief help people manage uncertainty and catalyze healing. Together with Paul, he examines the contested history of ancient psychedelic use, the risks of neo-shamanic narratives, and the deep psychological roots of sacred ceremony.

Dr. Manvir Singh is an assistant professor of anthropology at the University of California, Davis. He holds a BA from Brown University and a PhD in human evolutionary biology from Harvard. His writing has appeared in The New Yorker, Wired, The Guardian, and top academic journals. His first book, Shamanism: The Timeless Religion, was published in 2025.

Highlights:

• Shamanism as a psychological technology
• Performance, otherness, and credibility in healing
• Yopo, bufotenine, and entheogenic archaeology
• Why ancient psychedelic use is hard to verify
• The tension between tradition and neo-shamanism
• What happens when ceremony loses its context

Episode Sponsors:

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Episode 07 - Ben Malcom: The Spirit Pharmacist

This all new episode of the Psychedelics Then and Now Podcast features an all new interview with the ever wise and important Ben Malcom, The Spirit Pharmacist. Ben's knowledge of psychedelic compounds, drug interactions, safe use and pharmacological histories holds a unique place in today's psychedelic culture. His welcoming approach to very complicated topics really sets him apart from other scientific luminaries. Our conversation illuminated so many nooks and crannies within this ever expanding knowledge base.

Also, the intro brings classic 1977 Ram Dass's take on cognitive liberty and consciousness exploration. (Thank you to the Love Serve Remember Foundation)

About Ben Malcom

I envision a society in which access to psychedelic drugs in a variety of safe settings is available for purposes of psychospiritual well-being, personal development, ceremonial sacraments, and treatment of mental illness.

I strive to let my loves and passions guide my activity and provide the canvas my life is painted on. I hope this site can be of service to my vision as well as you.

Professionally, I was trained as a clinical psychiatric pharmacist and worked in academia for almost five years before dedicating myself to Spirit Pharmacist.

Today I provide psychopharmacology consulting, courses in psychedelic pharmacy, and a Member Resource and Support Program.

On a more personal note, I’m a lover of nature, exercise, music, and consciousness as well as being a father. I’m passionate about cognitive liberty, self-realization, and psychedelic drugs.

In this wide-ranging conversation, journalist Mattha Busby joins Joe Moore to reflect on the shifting tone of the psychedelic movement in the wake of Psychedelic Science 2025. Based in Vancouver, Mattha has written for The Guardian, VICE, Esquire, TIME, and Wired, bringing a uniquely embedded yet critical lens to the space.

They discuss the post-conference mood and the sense that the industry is sobering up—less hype, more introspection. Mattha reflects on the growing division between underground practitioners, activists, and biotech startups, and the importance of vision, ethics, and scrutiny in the midst of this cultural moment.

Other topics include:

• Ketamine overuse and dependence, especially in social and parenting contexts
• The future of psychedelic nightlife, harm reduction, and mocktail bars
• Gender and sexual fluidity as uncovered through psychedelics
• Questions of IP, underground wisdom, and psychedelic ownership
• Psychedelics as tools for peacebuilding, especially in conflict zones
• The shadow side of spiritual experiences and how to spot bad actors
• The value of pleasure, intimacy, and human connection in the psychedelic journey

Joe and Mattha also reflect on the resurgence of psychedelic use in Texas, the legacy of the Stark Club, and how Christian libertarianism and military trauma might influence unexpected policy changes.

This conversation is bold, honest, funny, and thoughtful—exactly the kind of cultural critique the movement needs right now.

Find Mattha on Instagram at @matthamundo and on LinkedIn at Mattha Busby. His new pocketbook on drug policy is available now.

Dylan Beynon: At-Home Ketamine Therapy, Big Pharma Pushback, and the Future of Psychedelic Accessibility

In this episode, Joe Moore welcomes Dylan Beynon, CEO and Founder of Mindbloom, one of the largest providers of legal, at-home ketamine therapy in the U.S.

Dylan shares the deeply personal story that led him to psychedelic medicine—including the tragic loss of his mother and sister to addiction and mental illness—and how these experiences continue to fuel his mission to make psychedelic therapy affordable and accessible for all. Mindbloom has now facilitated over 654,000 sessions across 38 states, offering both sublingual and subcutaneous (injectable) ketamine in a comprehensive treatment program that includes preparation, integration, music, journaling, and even generative AI art.

The conversation dives into common criticisms of at-home ketamine, the benefits of guided treatment over IV infusions, and the disturbing influence of Big Pharma in media narratives—especially the growing PR push behind SPRAVATO. Dylan also breaks down what makes Mindbloom’s outcomes stand out, why they recently added injectable ketamine, and how their safety data challenges popular misconceptions.

Joe and Dylan also touch on the potential future of at-home MDMA therapy, regulatory hurdles, and what it will take to scale these powerful treatments to millions of people in need.

If you're in the psychedelic field, considering ketamine therapy, or curious about the ethics and economics of psychedelic medicine, this episode offers a powerful look behind the curtain.

Resources:

• Mindbloom.com

• Vital Psychedelic Training

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Natalie Baird-King, a board-certified attorney in marital and family law who discovered the transformative power of forgiveness through psychedelic experiences.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-310/?ref=278

Natalie shares her journey from childhood abuse and depression to spiritual healing catalyzed by ayahuasca. As the author of Forgiving Unforgivable, she explains her HOPE model (Harken back, Open your heart, Proclaim forgiveness, Experience freedom) and how forgiveness—particularly self-forgiveness—became the key to healing her trauma and stepping into her purpose.

Natalie also discusses how her psychedelic experiences improved her professional approach as a mediator, bringing more compassion to her legal practice and inspiring her to share her story despite potential professional risks. Natalie Baird-King is an accomplished author, transformational coach, and TEDx speaker dedicated to helping others overcome trauma and embrace forgiveness. She is the author of Forgiving Unforgivable and is currently working on her second book focusing on self-forgiveness. A survivor of childhood abuse, Natalie channels her personal experiences into coaching high-performing professionals to overcome emotional barriers. Inspired by her late father-in-law, legendary broadcaster Larry King, Natalie uses storytelling to empower others to heal and thrive.

Highlights:

• Stumbling upon forgiveness through ayahuasca
• The practice of self-forgiveness as liberation
• Reconnecting with her father in a celestial journey
• Breaking free from depression and alcohol dependency
• The HOPE forgiveness model
• Bringing compassion to the legal profession
• Challenging professional stigma around psychedelics
• Mentorship from legendary broadcaster Larry King
• Advocating for psychedelic healing within legal circles
• Transforming anger into purpose

Episode links:

• Forgiving Unforgivable (Book)
• Natalie Baird Mediations

Episode links:

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

In this episode, we sit down with Victoria Litman, M.Div., J.D., LL.M., to discuss why the future of psychedelic access in the United States is being shaped not by federal agencies, but by the bold actions of individual states. As a legal scholar and writer focusing on drug policy, Victoria breaks down the significance of the FDA’s 2024 rejection of psychedelic-assisted therapy, and why that decision might be less of a setback than it seems.

We explore how state-level initiatives like Oregon’s Psilocybin Services Act and Colorado’s Natural Medicine Health Act are setting the stage for a new model of access—one rooted in harm reduction, personal liberty, and existing regulatory infrastructure. Victoria discusses the importance of the Tenth Amendment and the Anti-Commandeering Doctrine, which allow states to move forward regardless of federal inaction.

Rather than waiting for slow-moving federal institutions, Victoria argues that states can build safe, scalable systems now—especially by leveraging cannabis infrastructure for psychedelic regulation. She also touches on the ethical and cultural implications of this transition, including protections for spiritual and religious use.

If you’re wondering what psychedelic policy will look like in the years ahead, this episode offers an insightful and hopeful roadmap.

Link to CATO article

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Adam M. Curry is a psi researcher, remote viewer, entrepreneur, and polymath with a deep fascination for life’s biggest questions—from the nature of consciousness to the mystery of UFOs.

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By Adam's teenage years, he was already training with some of the world’s top remote viewers and collaborating with legends in the psi research scene like Dr. Hal Puthoff and Dr. Russell Targ. He’s worked with groundbreaking organizations like the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research (PEAR) lab, and from a young age has been immersed in some of the most cutting-edge scientific and philosophical frontiers imaginable: non-traditional physics, quantum mechanics, plasma theory, the UFO phenomenon, and psi—the subtle and often hidden ways consciousness interacts with and influences reality.  

Adam's X account

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In this episode, Monnica T. Williams, PhD, ABPP joins to discuss how psychedelics may help alleviate mental health impacts of racial trauma. Dr. Williams is a licensed clinical psychologist and professor at the University of Ottawa in the School of Psychology, where she is the Canada Research Chair in Mental Health Disparities.

In this conversation, Dr. Williams begins by highlighting the daily stress and trauma experienced by people of color, likening it to PTSD. She discusses a survey her team conducted which revealed that many people of color use psychedelics to manage racial trauma, showing significant reductions in stress, depression, and anxiety. Additionally, Dr. Williams emphasizes the importance of a safe environment and culturally competent therapists. In closing, she discusses ongoing research at this intersection and the need for more funding and awareness in this field.

In this episode, you'll hear:

• How racial trauma manifests as conditions like PTSD, depression, and anxiety

• The importance of an intersectional perspective

• Current treatments for mental health struggles stemming from racial trauma

• Results from Dr. Williams’ research into psychedelic use amongst people of color

• The importance of safe and supportive settings for psychedelic experiences

• How shared life experiences between a therapist and client can strength the therapeutic alliance and improve outcomes

• Why bias training is particularly important in the context of psychedelic therapy

Quotes:

“People of color who live in these white dominated Western contexts are continually bombarded by subtle —and not so subtle—messages about their worth, about their standing in society, about their intelligence, their character, on and on and on and on. And so really the daily onslaught just wears and wears away at people, and the stress of that can actually become traumatizing.” [1:49]

“People heal from trauma when someone witnesses their pain, right? When people can compassionately witness your pain and join in it with you—this is the basis behind all therapeutic approaches for trauma treatment.” [10:13]

“We saw [from our survey study] that many, many people of color are using psychedelics to manage racism, often very quietly. But it seems for many people to be quite effective and quite helpful.” [11:53]

“We looked at some separate psychedelics where we had enough people who described a specific one like psilocybin or LSD or peyote in some cases. And so we were able to look at those psychedelics separately and we didn't actually find a difference. It didn't seem to matter which psychedelic it was. It seemed that they were all, more or less equally effective.” [15:20]

Links:

Dr. Williams’ website

Dr. Williams on X

Dr. Williams on Instagram

Dr. Williams on LinkedIn

Dr. Williams’ study “Investigating the associations of acute psychedelic experiences and changes in racial trauma symptoms, psychological flexibility, and substance use among People with Racial and Ethnic Minoritized Identities in the United States and Canada”

Behavioral Wellness Clinic - Connecticut

Behavioural Wellness Clinic - Ottawa 

Masters Program in Psychedelics and Consciousness Studies at University of Ottawa

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin sits down with Rachel Pastor and Tiffany Hurd, leaders behind Golden Rule Mushrooms, a woman-led microdosing company pushing the boundaries of accessibility, education, and intention in the psychedelic space.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-309/?ref=278

From overcoming heroin addiction and corporate burnout to leading a values-driven microdosing brand, Rachel and Tiffany share their powerful personal journeys and the mission that fuels their work today. They dive into the evolving landscape of legal psychedelics, the challenges of running a public-facing microdosing company, and the line between recreational use and intentional wellness.

This candid conversation explores how Golden Rule is reframing the perception of psychedelics by offering trustworthy, well-branded psilocybin and LSD microdoses paired with community support and education.

Rachel Pastor is the co-founder of Golden Rule Mushrooms and a passionate advocate for healing through psychedelics. After overcoming heroin addiction and years of trauma, she became a leader in the wellness space, working in fitness and personal development before discovering the transformative power of microdosing. Today, she channels her lived experience into helping others access safe, supportive, and empowering psychedelic tools.

Tiffany Hurd is the co-founder of Golden Rule Mushrooms, a microdosing advisor, leadership mentor, and speaker with over seven years of experience in the psychedelic space. She has guided hundreds of individuals and teams through intentional microdosing journeys using neuroscience-backed protocols. Tiffany’s work bridges personal transformation and professional growth, helping people build emotional resilience, unlock creativity, and heal with integrity.

Ready to try Golden Rule? Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout. Click Here.

Highlights:

• From heroin addiction to fitness leader to microdosing advocate
• Creating accessible, trusted microdosing products
• Navigating legality and risk in a gray-market space
• Building a woman-run company rooted in lived experience
• The role of education in safe microdosing use
• Wellness vs. recreational use
• Can microdosing be overused or misused?
• Microdosing as a catalyst—not a cure-all

Episode Sponsor:

• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave’s Psychedelic Coaching Institute.