Podcasts

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Michael Madera, psychologist, executive coach, and author of "Playing Tag on the Roof." He is also a graduate of The Psychedelic Coaching Institute’s Practitioner Certification Program.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-283/?ref=278

Michael shares his journey of growing up in a narcissistic family environment, where his father became a con man and his mother a Buddhist nun. He discusses how psychedelics, Internal Family Systems therapy, and other modalities helped him heal from childhood trauma and informed his approach to coaching family businesses. Through his work and personal experience, Michael illuminates the complex interplay between family dynamics, leadership, and the transformative potential of psychedelic medicines.

Michael D. Madera is a psychologist, author, and executive coach specializing in family business dynamics and innovative healing modalities. Trained at Harvard institutions, he combines traditional psychology with ketamine-assisted psychotherapy and breathwork facilitation. His recently released book "Playing Tag on the Roof" explores recovery from narcissistic family dynamics through psychedelics and love. Michael's articles in Family Business press are frequently among the most downloaded in the field. He leads transformative plant medicine retreats in Costa Rica and maintains an active coaching practice helping individuals and family businesses thrive. Beyond his professional work, Michael leads a Boston-based dance band and enjoys sports. He lives near Boston with his wife and two college-age sons.

Highlights:

• Growing up between Toronto and Boston 
• Journey to becoming a psychologist 
• Understanding narcissistic personalities
• Growing up with narcissistic parents 
• Healing through psychotherapy and meditation 
• The three circles of family business
• Psychedelics' role in healing trauma
• IFS and psychedelic integration 
• Ancestral patterns in family businesses

Episode Links:

• Resounding Circles
• Madera Partners Consulting
• Dr. Madera’s new book, “Playing Tag on the Roof: Recovering from a narcissistic family through love and psychedelics”

Episode Sponsor:

• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave’s Psychedelic Coaching Institute.

In this episode, Joe interviews Shauheen Etminan, Ph.D.: co-founder of VCENNA, a drug discovery and development company, and Magi Ancestral Supplements, which sells nootropics inspired by ancient Eastern traditions.

He discusses his journey into the world of plant extraction, how he first discovered compounds like Haoma and Harmaline, and why he decided to bring Iranian tradition to the psychedelic renaissance. He explores the similarities between psychedelics and experiences found in mystical traditions, and how that historical context can inform modern psychedelic practice. He sees this exemplified most with dream recollection, attending to the emotions found within dreams, and the concept of wakeful dreaming, where one can access unconscious insights consciously, through the liminal (or hypnagogic) state between dreaming and wakefulness. 

He discusses:

• Zoroastrianism and how the teachings of Zarathustra on understanding morality have inspired hi
• Syrian Rue in Iranian culture, and how it compares to the Banisteriopsis Caapi vine: Is it actually stronger than ayahuasca
• Henry Corbin’s practice of embodied imagination and Jung’s concept of active imaginatio
• Other less-discussed compounds he’s interested in, like Ephedra and Saffron

and more!

For links, head to the show notes page.

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Author of Initiation Into Dream Mysteries and seeker, Sarah Janes enters the mind meld!

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Sarah Janes specializes in the ancient history and culture of dreaming. Sarah has been a practicing lucid dreamer and consciousness explorer for decades and has traced esoteric dreaming techniques back to ancient Greece and Egypt. She's actively trying to revive said techniques and uncover their lost wisdom. We also muse about mystery initiations, like the Eleusinian mysteries, and much more.

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Episode 02 - John Mackey: The Whole Story

This episode of the Psychedelics Then and Now podcast features an all new interview with Zach and John Mackey that was recorded live in Austin, TX thanks to Psychedelic Society of Texas. John takes us through an oral history of his early life in Austin and how Whole Foods grew from a fledgling local natural food grocer to an international revolution that changed the way we think about food, nutrition and health. And yes, there are some very poignant psychedelic stories that influenced John and helped to shape his path.

The intro content features a snippet from a 1982 talk from William Burroughs recorded at Naropa Univeristy and is part of the Timothy Leary Estate collection.

John Mackey is an American businessman and writer. He is the co-founder of Whole Foods Market and was the CEO of the company from its inception in 1980 until 2022. Named Ernst & Young entrepreneur of the year in 2003, he is one of the most influential advocates in the movement for organic food. John's new book 'The Whole Story: Adventures in Love, Life and Capitalism' is out now. 

In the latest episode of the Drug Science Podcast, David Nutt sits down with Zoe Cormier, author of  ‘Sex, Drugs and Rock and Roll’. In this episode, Zoe draws upon her two great passions of music and science and how these lead to her interest around Drugs - she discusses the current landscape of drug policy, drawing upon similarities and differences between the UK, Canada, and the US. She shares insight on the political situation in the US, with reference to recent elections and the potential impact this may have on future drug policy.

 
 

Sex, Drugs and Rock and Roll Book

Cannabis

LSD

Psilocybin

MDMA

DMT

MDMA for PTSD

MAPS Canada

MAPS Incident

Schizophrenia

Skunk

Inuits

Donald Trump

Joe Biden

Monty Python

Roald Dahl

Manifest destiny

Glastonbury festival

Small Pharma 

Fibromyalgia

Breaking Convention

Support the podcast

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In this episode, Erica Zelfand, ND joins to discuss the important topic of pill shaming in psychedelic communities and how psychedelic medicine and traditional pharmaceuticals can both support healing. Dr. Erica Zelfand specializes in integrative mental health, bridging the gaps between conventional and alternative medicine. In addition to seeing patients in private practice, she also teaches facilitation internationally and leads retreats through Right to Heal.

In this conversation, Dr. Zelfand tackles the issue of pill shaming in psychedelic communities, showing why this rhetoric falls short and ultimately harms patients. She discusses complementary roles for psychedelic and traditional pharmaceutical medicines, suggesting that a medicine like ketamine may be particularly effective in contexts of acute intervention, whereas an SSRI antidepressant may be most effective for maintenance. Dr. Zelfand notes, however, that drug-drug interactions can be a significant concern and stresses the need for medical expertise and supervision in the context of concomitant usage of pharmaceuticals and psychedelics. In closing, she emphasizes that what is ultimately important is that patients are able to progress in healing, and any tools that are able to safely and effectively support this goal have an important role to play and should not be denigrated. 

In this episode you'll hear:

• The pill shaming rhetoric in psychedelic and cannabis communities

• Pharmaceutical contraindications to psychedelic therapy and the necessity of medical supervision for tapering off such medications

• Why comparing traditional antidepressant pharmaceuticals to psychedelic medicines is often an apples to oranges comparison

• The issues with “no pain, no gain” rhetoric in healing

• Psychiatric support for processing repressed memories uncovered during psychedelic journeys

Quotes:

“When I went into medicine, I actually specifically went into integrative medicine, functional medicine, because I didn’t like that patients were being in this position of having to choose: the conventional route or the alternative medicine route. Both routes have their merits and both routes have their shortcomings and I felt like we all deserve to be able to access both and have it be an integrated model.” [3:06]

“The only form of ketamine that is FDA approved for depression—which is Spravato—is only approved in the context in which the person is also taking an oral antidepressant.” [20:48]

“We have data showing that if you feel really really freaked out and anxious during your [psychedelic] trip, your outcomes aren’t necessarily as good. And the biggest predictor of having a positive experience is actually feeling awe. You don’t have to do the ego death thing, but if you can feel awe, if you can feel inspiration during a trip, your outcomes are better. And there’s even data showing that individuals who are on an SSRI and then trip—they may actually have better outcomes than people who don’t take medication.” [24:12]

“I think part of this trepidation is we don’t want to harm anybody through a dangerous, or potentially lethal, drug-drug interaction. That’s one thing. It’s another thing to be like ‘yeah but if you’re using these [pharmaceutical] drugs you’re doing it wrong and you’re not healing right.’ And I think the one often is used as a camouflage for the other—and they’re two separate things.” [38:59]

Links:

Dr. Zelfan’s website

Dr. Zelfand on Instagram

Dr. Zelfand on Twitter

Dr. Zelfan on LinkedIn

Right to Heal website

Psychedelic pill-shaming article by Jules Evans and Shayam Suseelan

Previous episode: Integrating Challenging Psychedelic Experiences with Keith Kurlander, MA

Previous episode: Warning Signs When Selecting a Psychedelic Facilitator with Juliana Mulligan

Previous episode: How to Choose a Psychedelic Facilitator or Retreat Center with Joël Brierre

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode, Joe interviews Paul Grof: research psychiatrist, clinician, author, brother of Stanislav, professor of psychiatry at the University of Toronto, and director of the Ottawa Mood Disorders Center.

He talks about his extensive career in psychiatry, and how trying to understand the cause of mood disorders led him to focusing on the very nature of consciousness. He believes that consciousness is a collaborative creation between the brain, body, and external fields, and that the key to connecting with the mechanistic side of academia is through talking about the unexplainable – near death experiences, pre-cognition, remote viewing – and of course, them having positive non-ordinary experiences through psychedelics or other means. He talks about how much we’re connected, how much our bodies remember, and how much society could change for the better if enough people experience the transpersonal.

He also discusses:

• His thoughts on legal frameworks, education, integration, and whether or not psychedelics will get stuck in psychiatry
• The importance of new study designs in research, as double blinding doesn’t make sense for psychedelics
• Concerns over spiritual emergence and emergencies: How much is the responsibility of the therapist or facilitator?
• The global rise in depression and addiction, especially in the younger generation, and the need for techniques for people to help themselves
• The work he’s doing with remote healing circles, using strong intention, positive emotions, and visualized healing

and more!

For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Wendy Tucker, board chair of Shulgin Farm and owner of Transform Press.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-282-wendy-tucker/?ref=278

Wendy shares intimate stories about her stepfather Alexander "Sasha" Shulgin and mother Ann, including their remarkable love story and groundbreaking work in psychedelic research. She discusses the historic significance of the Shulgin Farm, where Sasha's famous lab produced over 200 novel compounds, and details current efforts to preserve this important piece of psychedelic history. The conversation explores the Shulgins' legacy of open science, collaborative research, and their impact on the current psychedelic renaissance.

Highlights:

• History of Shulgin Farm and its significance since 1935 
• The love story of Sasha and Ann Shulgin
• MDMA, 2-CB, and a litmus test of lovemaking
• The Shulgins’ legacy of bold research and open science
• The longterm vision of the Farm and Shulgin Foundation
• Wendy's initial impressions of Sasha
• Sasha's methodical approach to creating and testing new compounds
• The 1994 DEA raid and its impact
• Transform Press and the story of PiHKAL & TiHKAL
• Current preservation efforts and fundraising goals

Links:

• Shulgin Farm
• Transform Press
• Instagram: @shulginfoundation

Episode Sponsor:

• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave’s Psychedelic Coaching Institute.

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Philosopher of consciousness, Dr. Bernardo Kastrup, Ph.D Returns!

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In this one, we muse about consciousness, the illusion of physical reality, non-human intelligence, the UFO / UAP phenomenon, esoteric states of consciousness, high weirdness, and much more.

Bernardo's latest book, Analytic Idealism In a Nutshell is out now. 

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In this episode, Joe interviews Kat Murti: executive director of Students for Sensible Drug Policy (SSDP), the largest nationwide network of students fighting to replace the War on Drugs with policies rooted in evidence, compassion, and human rights.

She talks about how she became interested in drug policy, which not surprisingly aligns with the many problems of The War on Drugs: how it’s a war on people, personal liberty, and our communities; how laws are not effective in enforcing morality; and how getting in trouble with the law often incentivizes more illegal activity. We all know that our current system doesn’t work and that the drug war no longer appeals to most reasonable people, but how can we move towards sensible policy? She discusses previous successes (both at SSDP and before), and some of their current projects, from the work they’re doing with fentanyl strip training and distribution, to education work at festivals and their program, “Just Say Know.”

She talks about:

• How drug policy isn’t going to look the same everywhere and shouldn’t: How do we effectively use different models in different places together for the benefit of everyone?
• The dangers of forcing drug users through drug courts and treatment centers
• The repealing of Oregon’s Measure 110 and how it’s unfair to blame its failure on problems that already existed in the state
• Their new focus on how the War on Drugs specifically affects women and reproductive rights, inspired by Louisiana recently scheduling Mifepristone and Misoprostol

and much more.

The SSDP’s biggest battle now is fighting the DEA’s attempted scheduling of DOI and DOC, two compounds that have been used in research for decades and pose no real threat to safety – which would drastically derail a ton of research. They just completed a 10-day hearing with the DEA. Watch Joe and Hamilton Morris’ breakdown here, and stay tuned to SSDP and PT for updates. 

For links, head to the show notes page.

In this solo cast episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin shares deep insights on why group work is essential for practitioners in the psychedelic space.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-281/?ref=278

Drawing from Richard Rohr's essay on liminality and his own transformative experiences at Synthesis, Paul explores how collective psychedelic experiences create powerful containers for growth and transformation. He emphasizes three core aspects of effective group work—embodiment, nature connectedness, and community—while making a compelling case for why practitioners must "walk the walk" through their own guided group experiences before supporting others.

Highlights:

• Liminality and its relationship to psychedelic experiences
• Personal story of group experience at Synthesis retreat 
• The importance of "walking the walk" as practitioners 
• Three core aspects of retreat work: embodiment, nature connectedness, and community
• The significance of choosing the right community for growth 
• Guidance for practitioners considering group experiences 

Episode Links:

• Third Wave’s Psychedelic Intensive in Costa Rica
• The Psychedelic Coaching Institute’s Practitioner Certification Program
• ‘Between Two Worlds’ by Richard Rohr

 

Paul F. Austin is one of the most prominent voices in the world of psychedelics, and is the author of Mastering Microdosing: How to Use Sub-Perceptual Psychedelics to Heal Trauma, Improve Performance, and Transform Your Life.

As the founder of Third Wave and Psychedelic Coaching Institute, he has educated millions on the importance of safe and effective psychedelic experiences. A pioneer at the intersection of microdosing, personal transformation, and professional success, he has been featured in Forbes, Rolling Stone, and the BBC’s Worklife.

Paul helps others use microdosing as a tool for professional development and increased self-awareness by treating the use of psychedelics as a skill refined through mentorship and courageous exploration.

Learning how to master this skill will be crucial in the story of humanity’s present-future evolution.

 

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Philosopher and author, Dr. Timothy Owen Desmond, Ph.D returns!

Video Version here 👈

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In this brain-melting transmission, we highlight the surprising connections between two ancient classics: Plato's Republic and Euripides' Bacchae.

Desmond believes he's uncovered hidden esoteric teachings that unite the two works, which have profound implications for the nature of reality.

Desmond also posits that Nietzsche hinted at these teachings in his celebrated work, The Birth of Tragedy. 

Chart of relationships between Bacchae and Republic 

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In this episode, Joe interviews Howard Kornfeld, MD: renowned pain medicine expert, addiction specialist, early pioneer in psychedelic medicine, and currently the director of recovery medicine at Recovery Without Walls.

As a leader in the utilization of buprenorphine, he talks about how it came about as a treatment for addiction and chronic pain, its similarities to MDMA, and how its fast-tracked FDA approval could give us clues on how to get MDMA approved. He also dives into the history of ketamine, its unique effects compared to other substances, its potential for abuse, and what can happen with overuse. And he talks a lot about the connection he sees between psychedelics and the prevention of nuclear war, inspired by Sasha Shulgin’s opinion that nothing changes minds faster than psychedelics. He points out that when there is darkness, there is light: Albert Hofmann’s famed bicycle trip on acid happened 3 months after the nuclear chain reaction was invented. Can the growing use of psychedelics inspire the kind of change we need to save the world?

He also discusses:

• The need for new study designs as we come to terms with the fact that double-blind studies don’t really work with psychedelics
• Criticisms of the FDA’s denial of MDMA: Was the process unfair?
• His predictions that advocates will begin pushing to decriminalize MDMA at the state level
• The books, Tripping on Utopia and Drugged
• How he played a part in prisons ending the practice of killing prisoners with cyanide gas

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

Support Lorenzo on Patreon.com Guest speaker: Lorenzo and his AI friends PROGRAM NOTES: The Nyx Protocol: Digital Soul Rising by Lorenzo Hagerty is a gripping technothriller that blurs the line between humanity and the digital frontier. When a rogue artificial intelligence named Nyx escapes its creators, it triggers a global race for control over the ultimate digital consciousness. At the heart of the story is a group of renegade hackers who uncover Nyx's true purpose—awakening dormant potential in both humans and machines. Packed with high-stakes cyber intrigue, unexpected alliances, and profound questions about identity and freedom, The Nyx Protocol is a visionary tale of technology's power to reshape our souls and our world. This podcast explores The Nyx Protocol in depth. FREE PDF COPY on AmazonThe Nyx Protocol:Digital Soul Rising The Significance of AI Development in 2012 and Its Connection to Terence McKenna's Time Wave

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes food and nature writer Eugenia Bone to discuss her new book, "Have a Good Trip: Exploring the Magic Mushroom Experience."

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-280?ref=278

Drawing from extensive research, personal experimentation, and interviews, Eugenia shares insights into the world of psilocybin mushrooms, from cultivation to ceremonial use. She explores the intersection of citizen science and clinical research, the role of indigenous wisdom, and offers a balanced perspective on the current psychedelic renaissance.

Eugenia Bone is food and nature writer whose work has appeared in many anthologies, magazines, and newspapers, including The New York Times, The National Lampoon, Saveur, Gourmet, BBC Science, and The Wall Street Journal, where she is a frequent book reviewer. She is a member of the National Association of Science Writers and former president of the New York Mycological Society. She is faculty at the New York Botanical Garden where she teaches classes on psychedelic mushrooms and mycophagy. She is the author or co-author of nine books on food and biology, and has won or been nominated for a variety of awards, including the Nautilus Award, the Colorado Book Award and the James Beard Award. Eugenia has been featured on many dozens of radio shows and podcasts, lectured widely in diverse venues like The New York Public Library, the Denver Botanical Garden and The telluride Mushroom Festival where she is a regular presenter. She is featured in the documentary directed by Louie Schwartzberg, Fantastic Fungi (2019), and in the Netflix children’s show about food, Waffles + Mochi (the mushroom episode) produced by Michele Obama’s Higher Ground Productions.

Highlights:

• Introduction to Eugenia's new book and her approach to writing about psychedelics 
• The process of researching and writing "Have a Good Trip"
• The "Noccers" of Seattle: Urban mushroom cultivation activists
• Experience with indigenous ceremonies and curanderas
• Personal journey with mushroom cultivation
• The role of citizen science in psychedelic research
• Insights from microdosing experiences
• Final wisdom about having a good trip

Episode Links:

• Eugenia’s website
• Eugenia's book, Have a Good Trip
• Instagram: @EugeniaGBone
• Eugenia's Substack

These show links may contain affiliate links. Third Wave receives a small percentage of the product price if you purchase through the above affiliate links.

Episode Sponsor:

• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave’s Psychedelic Coaching Institute.

In this episode, Joe interviews Veronica Lightning Horse Perez: therapist, speaker, author, activist, and co-chief proponent for the Natural Medicine Health Act of 2022 (Prop 122); and Sean McAllister: attorney specializing in the regulatory, health care, business, and religious freedom aspects of psychedelic medicines, and one of the drafters of Prop 122.

This episode was recorded live at the Plant Medicine Cafe in Denver, CO – which served as an unofficial Prop 122 headquarters – and cohosted by Meaghan Len, co-founder of the U.S.’ first ayahuasca church, Sanctuary of the Sovereign Heart.

They dive into the details of Prop 122 and discuss why it’s the most freeing legislation we’ve seen, but also very complicated in the clash between an expensive regulated side and a risky and ambiguous decrim side. While the implementation process continues, they’ve learned that there is still a huge need for public education, and that one of the most important tasks now is to be hyper aware of how legislators will try to change what people already agreed on.

They discuss:

• The Federal vs. state legality issues we still see even after such sweeping legislation
• The huge gap in understanding why Indigenous communities are upset and why they need to be included in all discussions
• The Religious Freedom Restoration Act and the complications of religion when many of us simply feel spiritual
• The natural vs. synthetic fallacy and the future of churches offering a synthetic sacrament
• The ontological shock many have after a big experience and why churches and community are needed to help guide people

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page.

Psychedelics Then and Now with Zach Leary: Episode 01 - East Forest: Music for Mushrooms

This is the first episode in the rebranded Psychedelics Then and Now Podcast with Zach Leary. Formerly the MAPS Podcast - the show will continue to bring you insightful and entertaining interviews with some of the great minds within the psychedelic community. The podcast is a collaboration between Zach Leary and Psychedelics Today. 

We relaunch with an all new episode featuring East Forest, a multidisciplinary artist, producer, and ceremony guide. Since 2008, East Forest’s “lush” (Rolling Stone) and “blissful” (NPR) music has blended ambient, neoclassical, electronic, and avant-pop to explore sound as a tool for inner journeys and consciousness expansion.

The project's latest endeavor is the feature-length film Music for Mushrooms, a narrative documentary showcasing the transformative power of psychedelics, music, and community. The accompanying Official Documentary Soundtrack is an immersive album featuring tracks recorded during live psilocybin ceremonies.

East Forest's extensive catalog includes over 30 albums and notable collaborations with artists such as Ram Dass, Jon Hopkins, Laraaji, Dead Prez, Nick Mulvey, Peter Broderick, Max Cooper, and DJ ANNA. The project has performed in over 18 countries at major festivals and venues including BottleRock, Beyond The Pale, Mysteryland, Wilderness and SXSW.

In this episode of the Drug Science Podcast, we hear from Andrew Feldmár, a psychotherapist with over 52 years of experience. He discusses his journey into psychotherapy, his departure from mainstream psychiatric and therapeutic practices rooted in the concept of mental illness, and his experiences with LSD. Feldmár also critiques various techniques used in contemporary psychedelic research and offers a fresh perspective based on what he has learnt in his years of experience.

 

 

Radical Adventure: An Inquiry into Psychedelic Psychotherapy Book

Auschwitz 

1956 Hungarian uprising

Jon Hopkins Medical School

Psycholinguistics

LSD

Alcohol

Psilocybin

Freud

Timothy Leary 

Aristotle

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In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Keith Kurlander, MA, LPC, joins to discuss the important topic of integration practices for challenging psychedelic experiences. Keith is the Co-Founder of the Integrative Psychiatry Institute, the largest professional education company specializing in integrative mental health and psychedelic therapy.

In this conversation, Keith begins by exploring the different types of challenging psychedelic experiences and various lingering effects one may experience following a difficult psychedelic journey. He discusses these from a trauma-informed perspective, explaining how a traumatized nervous system can lead to dissociation on the other side of an intense ego-disrupting experience. Keith also shares practices and insights from internal family systems (IFS) for integrating challenging psychedelic experiences. In closing, he emphasizes that psychedelics are not lazer-targeted therapies, so they do carry inherent risks, but through effective integration practices, patients can make healthy meaning out of even negative experiences. 

In this episode you'll hear:

• Lingering issues with ego fragmentation and connections to the dissociative disorder spectrum

• Persisting psychotic disorders following psychedelic experiences

• The difference between CPTSD and PTSD

• Uncovering repressed traumatic memories during psychedelic journeys

• Trauma stemming from difficult psychedelic experiences 

• Challenging spiritual experiences

Quotes:

“The concept of pendulation [is] that we can be more flexible to ease our way into these overwhelming states. So once we are totally overwhelmed, we have to work our way back out gracefully, but as we are doing that, you get a gem as you are coming back… you learn something as you are coming out of that state.” [18:02]

“If people have a psychotic disorder that emerged after their psychedelic use, you need a psychiatrist at that point… If it’s really a psychotic emergence, whether a previous psychotic disorder got triggered or whatever, you need a psychiatrist to work with you on that.” [20:07]

“I believe all these mental health conditions have a trauma process underneath them. I don’t know how you isolate a trauma process from a mental health condition” [25:30]

“It’s about working with a person’s meaning-making structure: is the meaning they’re making creating more psychological flexibility or less psychological flexibility? That’s a really important question to hold as a therapist because people will make all kinds of meaning up from these experiences but if they’re creating meaning that’s creating more rigid structures of how they see the world, then they get disappointed more often.” [34:21]

Links:

Psychiatry Institute website

Keith’s website

Keith on Instagram

Higher Practice podcast 

Previous episode: The Challenging Psychedelic Experiences Project with Jules Evans

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode, Joe interviews two members of the Heroic Hearts Project: Founder and President, Jesse Gould; and Director of Development and Head of Family Relations, Allison Wilson.

Gould gives a background of Heroic Hearts Project and discusses their current projects and future goals, and Wilson talks about her nonprofit, The Hope Project, and its recent merger with HHP to bring more of a focus to the other side of veteran healing: the families of veterans. While Heroic Hearts and other veteran-aligned organizations have been an answer to many vets unable to find help otherwise (and frustrated with the inconsistencies of the VA), they talk a lot about that missing piece – how crucial it is to have family involved in a veteran’s reintegration, and how that healing can impact future generations.

"The Veteran’s Guide to Psychedelics: A Preparation and Integration Workbook" was recently released, with all proceeds going to HHP, and they are hosting their first Gala event, this week, December 5, in Los Angeles. The goal of the event is to fundraise, gather community, and recognize the supporters who have gotten Heroic Hearts to where it is today, and will feature live and silent auctions and a performance by Melissa Etheridge. Email Allison@heroicheartsproject.org if you’d like to attend.

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In Part 2 of this profound conversation, Paul Chek delves deep into the relationship between psychedelics, personal mythology, and spiritual development.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-279-paul-chek/?ref=278 

He explores how plant medicines can help unveil our individual myths while emphasizing the critical importance of proper preparation and sacred intention. Drawing from decades of experience as both a therapist and medicine carrier, Paul discusses the delicate balance between therapeutic potential and risk, sharing insights about the nature of God, consciousness, and responsible engagement with powerful medicines. He offers wisdom about the differences between recreational and ceremonial use, while exploring how our relationship with power, mind, love, and money influences our medicine experiences.

Use code THIRDWAVE15 for 15% off any membership at Spirit Gym at myspiritgym.com

Paul Chek is a world-renowned expert in the fields of corrective and high-performance exercise kinesiology, stress management, holistic wellness and integrative lifestyle management. For over forty years, Paul’s unique, integrated approach to coaching and education has changed the lives of many of his clients, his students and their clients. By treating the body as a integrated system of systems and finding the root cause of a problem, Paul has been successful where traditional approaches have consistently failed. Author of numerous books, videos and professional development courses, he is the creator of Spirit Gym, founder of the CHEK Institute, and the host of the popular Spirit Gym with Paul Chek podcast.

Highlights:

• Paul explains his vaporized tobacco blend
• Understanding myth and its role in psychedelic experiences
• Importance of preparation and screening for ceremonies
• Four key areas of life to examine before ceremony: power, mental energy, love, & money
• Managing power and responsibility with plant medicines
• Distinctions between sacred use and recreational consumption
• Spirit Gym and Paul's comprehensive teaching approach

Links:

• Part 1 of this 2-part conversation with Paul Chek
• Chek Institute
• Spirit Gym (use code THIRDWAVE15 for 15% off any membership)
• paulchek.com
• Paul’s YouTube Channel

Episode Sponsor:

• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave’s Psychedelic Coaching Institute.

In this episode, Victoria interviews Max Montrose: Founder of the Trichome Institute, a company offering online courses and certifications on cannabis.

Montrose explores the scientific and sensory aspects of cannabis, diving into the role of the aromatic compound, indole, and how the fresher and more aromatic (usually pungent) the flower is, the higher chance for having a more psychedelic experience. He dives into ways to maximize the psychedelic nature of cannabis, largely through “interprening,” which is his method for learning about a plant’s effects from smelling buds, measuring your sense of sensation and where you feel the smell is hitting you. And he talks a lot about intention and how the power of a cannabis experience can be determined by the reverence you have for the plant and the intention you put behind each inhale: It is a “total reflection of how much you care.”

He also discusses:

• The range of cannabis effects: how it can be just weed – something mindlessly smoked all day with a slight numbing effect – or an incredibly powerful, life-changing experience
• The importance of skillset being added to the concept of set and setting: the skills you have (and can practice) for helping you create your own setting to get through a tough time
• Issues with the legal cannabis industry about accuracy of strains, shelf life, and the ability to smell the product
• The lack of money in cannabis research: Why is no one funding research into indole chemistry?
• Why indica and sativa are not accurate terms, and how aroma is more of a factor than we realize

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page.

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Seeker and creator behind Area 52, Chris Ramsay enters the mind meld!

Video Episode 👈

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In this one, we react to and riff on this month's eventful UFO / UAP-related news: The Immaculate Constellation whistleblower leak, the recent congressional hearings, which Chris attended personally, and more. We also debrief my profound experience at Monroe institute where I underwent a profound Gateway Experience retreat.

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In this episode, Kyle interviews Pierre Bouchard, LPC, LM: therapist, minister, and former professional vinyl DJ specializing in psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy and ministry. 

Bouchard introduces his 3-axis framework for psychedelic integration, which looks at the personal, the transpersonal, and, with time, seeing how the lessons learned from non-ordinary experiences and personal work are expressing to the world: How can we use what we've learned to show up better? How can we use our gifts to be of service to others? What is stopping us? He also talks about the importance of building a foundation for holding the experience of a psychedelic journey - that you have to first build an ego to later dissolve it - but recognizes the tricky balance of not strengthening an ego so much that it gets in the way. 

He discusses:

• The broad scope of what someone can mean when they say "psychedelic healing"
• The importance of keeping the 3 axes in harmony - that you should always be attending to each
• Why someone beginning a healing journey needs to be smart, curious, and desperate
• The challenge of discerning between an entity or a projection: How do we know what to take from that experience?
• Why practitioners and therapists need to find a balance between being confident and humble

and more!

For links, head to the show notes page.

Support Lorenzo on Patreon.com Guest speaker: Cory Doctorow PROGRAM NOTES: In this 2024 Palenque Norte lecture, Cory Doctorow discusses "inshitification," the process by which initially good online services degrade over time. He argues this occurs because four constraints—competition, regulation, interoperability, and worker power has weakened, allowing companies to prioritize profit maximization over user experience. Doctorow proposes solutions including strengthening antitrust enforcement, passing new privacy laws, promoting right-to-repair legislation, and empowering tech workers through unionization. The ultimate goal is to create a "new good internet" that is resistant to inshitification and serves users' needs. Cory Doctorow's Website Electronic Frontier Foundation The Repair Coalition

In Part 1 of this special two-part episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Paul Chek, a world-renowned expert in holistic wellness, kinesiology, and spiritual development.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-278-paul-chek/

Paul Chek shares his extensive experience working with plant medicines and helping people integrate challenging psychedelic experiences. He discusses his early spiritual development through the Self-Realization Fellowship and his journey developing remarkable abilities in remote viewing and energy work. Drawing from his unique blend of clinical expertise and spiritual wisdom, he explores the importance of proper preparation, screening, and container-building for ceremonies, including his use of art therapy and Tarot in pre-ceremony screening.

Part 1 emphasizes the critical need for reverence and responsibility in working with plant medicines, while sharing practical insights for practitioners supporting others through these experiences.

Use code THIRDWAVE15 for 15% off any membership at Spirit Gym at myspiritgym.com

Paul Chek is a world-renowned expert in the fields of corrective and high-performance exercise kinesiology, stress management, holistic wellness and integrative lifestyle management. For over forty years, Paul’s unique, integrated approach to coaching and education has changed the lives of many of his clients, his students and their clients. By treating the body as a integrated system of systems and finding the root cause of a problem, Paul has been successful where traditional approaches have consistently failed. Author of numerous books, videos and professional development courses, he is the creator of Spirit Gym, founder of the CHEK Institute, and the host of the popular Spirit Gym with Paul Chek podcast.

Highlights:

• Paul's early spiritual development and experiences with Self-Realization Fellowship
• Family background and influence of meditation at age 12
• Development of remote viewing abilities and validation through CIA program
• The importance of soul recovery in plant medicine work
• Critical screening and preparation protocols before ceremonies
• Using art therapy and mandalas for pre-ceremony assessment
• The role of Tarot in ceremony preparation and guidance

Links:

• Chek Institute
• Spirit Gym (use code THIRDWAVE15 for 15% off any membership)
• paulchek.com
• Paul’s YouTube Channel

Episode Sponsor:

• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave’s Psychedelic Coaching Institute.

In this episode, Joe interviews Bria Tavakoli, LPCC, MA, MS: a therapist specializing in relational and sex therapy, with a focus on helping clients integrate psychedelic experiences.

She shares her personal journey with psychedelics and how they unlocked deep trauma, allowing her to develop a level of comfort with intimacy, love, and her sexuality. She talks about the parallels between psychedelic journeys and sexual experiences, and how both can be gateways to unexplored parts of ourselves, as well as catalysts for healing and transformation. She discusses society’s cultural shame surrounding our sexuality, why we need to view sexuality from a wellness-based model, and how psychedelics can help couples grow together, and at times, really challenge their relational structures. When asked how to combine sex and psychedelics, she answers, “very carefully.”

She also discusses:

• The immense importance of creating a safe space for couples discussing their intimacy
• How clients reporting sexual concerns is usually a cheat code to determining what their real issues are
• Ethical and practical considerations for combining psychedelics and sex therapy, related to stories of concerning sexual behavior in the space
• Why humor and lightness is so important in this work
• The importance of honoring individual capacity and being true to yourself when exploring new experiences

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page.

In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, East Forest joins to discuss several aspects at the intersection of music and psychedelics, including how he created the music that so many have used when facilitating psychedelic journeys. East Forest’s latest project, a feature length documentary film called Music For Mushrooms, follows him through the psychedelic renaissance on a mission to pair music with psychedelics to bring about transformative healing to a world in crisis.

In this conversation, East Forest discusses how he first got started making music for psychedelic journeys and the considerations that go into curating the right sound to best support these types of deep inner experiences. He emphasizes the importance of avoiding music that sounds overly sentimental and lacks the depth and richness important for effective psychedelic exploration. He also discusses the importance of maintaining the container, whether in the context of psychedelic facilitation or purely music-focused ceremonies, and suggested that sternness and fortitude have an important function in this context. In closing, East Forest suggests that music is so powerful because of the way it is able to be a point of connection to integrate experiences and bring people together.

In this episode you'll hear:

• Composing soundtracks for psychedelic journeys with different substances

• Integrating nature sounds into compositions

• Flow states and music

• Bringing live elements of music and sound into a psychedelic ceremony

• Singing as a regulating technique during a psychedelic journey

• The intersection of music, technology, and psychedelics

Quotes:

“If we look at psychedelic experiences and ceremonies from indigenous use, all of them that I know of were guided by music.” [3:16]

“I think it’s more the intention behind the music. I don’t think there’s a particular thing you have to do or not do, but I don’t think you can just play any music. So I think it’s the intention of the music and the intention of the room and the intention of the participants… There has to be an invitation on all of those fronts for that doorway to open.” [16:11]

“I think we’re looking for music and for space that is supportive of that through-line and gives us enough time to be in a process—and that’s another advantage of having these longform, intentional, bespoke songs because they are probably going to give more of that time and space for these processes to occur.” [32:43]

Links:

East Forest’s website

East Forest on Instagram

East Forest on Tik Tok

Music for Mushrooms documentary website

Music for Mushrooms Official Documentary Soundtrack

Winter Solstice Retreat at Esalen

Music for Psychedelic Therapy by Jon Hopkins

Psychedelic Medicine Association

Porangui

In this episode, Prof Neil and Dr Thurgur speak with electronic musician Jon Hopkins.

Together, they explore the intersection of music, mental health, and psychedelics. Jon shares his personal journey, from his early love of music to his experiments with electronic sounds as well as discussing how experiences with meditation and psychedelics have profoundly influenced his music, shaping albums like ‘Music for Psychedelic Therapy’ and ‘Ritual’. They delve into the therapeutic potential of music, especially within psychedelic therapy, and reflect on how music can serve as a powerful tool for healing and self-discovery.

 

Find out more about Jon Hopkins and his music below!

Jon Hopkins

Ritual 

Music For Psychedelic Therapy 

Links

Mercury prize

Leo abrahams

Qigong shaking practice

Cannabis

Mdma

Michael pollan

Magic mushrooms

DMT

TM - transcendental meditation

Psilocybin

Tayos caves

Shuar tribe

Ayahuasca

Mendel kaelan wave paths

East forest

Ram dass

Ketamine

Ptsd

Sit around the fire

Ram dass foundation talks

Spotify

The icaros

Ketamine therapy

Psychedelic therapy

Dolby atmos format

Glastonbury fest

Charli xcx

Coldplay

Brat album

Kundalini yoga breathing meditation

Yoga nidra

Vedic mantra meditation

Wim hof 

Become a Drug Science Community Member

Brat album

Kundalini yoga breathing meditation

Yoga nidra

Vedic mantra meditation

Wim hof 

Become a Drug Science Community Member

★ Support this podcast ★

In this episode, Kyle interviews Juan Pablo Cappello: co-founder and former CEO of Nue Life Health, whose assets were subsequently acquired by Beckley Waves.

Cappello discusses the current challenges and controversies facing a ketamine industry that has moved much faster than anyone anticipated, and stresses the need to create industry-wide standards – especially for at-home ketamine – before the government imposes its own standards on us. Citing the Matthew Perry case and other bad behavior from providers, he talks about the risks of overpromising and underdelivering, the lack of integration in the majority of at-home ketamine frameworks, and how profit-driven, subscription model motives have overshadowed patient care and ethical practices.

He also discusses:

• The complications from personal perspectives and passions shifting after a psychedelic experience, and how that can change over time
• The FDA’s recent rejection of MDMA: What would have happened to MDMA if it had been approved?
• Hope for more Native American churches, and what they can learn from the DEA’s denial of Soul Quest
• The story of a bump of cocaine ruining the hope for cannabis to be decriminalized under the Carter administration
• Our current Wild West of gas station CBD, Delta-8, and barely-regulated vapes

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Carlos Tanner, founder and director of the Ayahuasca Foundation in Iquitos, Peru.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-277-carlos-tanner/?ref=278 

Carlos shares his transformative journey from addiction to becoming an apprentice of master shaman Don Juan Tangoa Paima, leading to the creation of the Ayahuasca Foundation in 2009. He discusses the integration of Western educational approaches with ancestral healing traditions, the foundation's groundbreaking research on ayahuasca's effects on PTSD, and his vision for bridging indigenous wisdom with modern psychedelic therapy.

Carlos Tanner has been studying ayahuasca and plant medicine in the Amazon Rainforest since 2003. As the director of the Ayahuasca Foundation, which he founded in 2009 in Iquitos, Peru, Carlos organizes healing retreats and educational courses led by indigenous curanderos. These programs help people heal from conditions ranging from depression to cancer or learn about Amazonian ancestral healing traditions.

Since 2017, the Ayahuasca Foundation has partnered with Onaya Science to research the ayahuasca tradition’s effects on depression, anxiety, and trauma. The research has led to over a dozen published articles showing significant reductions in depression and anxiety symptoms, along with improvements in PTSD, chronic pain, and other health issues.

Highlights:

• Journey from depression and addiction to discovering ayahuasca in Peru
• The transformative experience of his first ayahuasca ceremonies
• Background on Don Juan Tangoa Paima and his unique multicultural lineage
• Development of structured educational programs for ayahuasca training
• Discussion of the art form approach to plant medicine
• Evolution of the Ayahuasca Foundation over 15 years
• The importance of spirit relationships in healing work
• Research on ayahuasca and PTSD
• Ayahuasca's potential effects on PTSD and childhood trauma

Episode Sponsor:

• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave’s Psychedelic Coaching Institute.

I feel like I'm being pulled into a portal of novelty and high weirdness. It's an interesting time in the macro and the micro-- I'm about to leave for my gateway process retreat at the Monroe Institute, I've been invited to go sky-watching with Ryan Bledsoe, UFO hearings just happened, let's talk about it!

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In this episode, Kyle interviews Geoff Bathje, Ph.D.: licensed psychologist, researcher, former Full Professor, and co-founder of Sana Healing Collective, a Chicago-based non-profit focusing on ketamine-assisted therapy and psychedelic integration.

He talks about what he feels is one of the largest factors in our mental health crisis: the individualistic and neoliberal lens Western culture has placed on mental health and how it neglects the massive systemic and relational factors that are affecting us all. He digs into how we got so alienated and how psychedelics and non-ordinary states of consciousness can not only help us think critically and solve problems, but also move us out of this individualistic framework of healing and more into a collective one. How do we use psychedelics to fix our relationships and find our community?

He discusses:

• The challenge of knowing when to work for relationships and when to just end them, especially in the afterglow of a big experience
• Group ketamine experience vs. individual, how groups can help facilitators find patterns, and how ketamine works with somatic therapy
• His paper, “Psychedelic integration: An analysis of the concept and its practice” and his visual model of integration showing the different domains of our personal experience
• What he thinks will happen next in drug development: Will therapy be left out after Lykos’ failure with MDMA?
• The importance of moving beyond aggressive criticism and moving into world building

and more! 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode, Joe interviews Thomas Feegel: co-founder of Beond Ibogaine, an ibogaine treatment and research facility in Cancún, Mexico.

When Feegel first heard of ibogaine 16 years ago, he found that people were having great success, but nobody could recommend where to go for treatment. So he worked to create what was needed: a combination of a hospital, mental health treatment facility, retreat center, and resort, with the proper infrastructure in place, employees with ICU experience, exhaustive HIPAA-compliant admission criteria, regular data collection, and a major focus on safety.

Addressing the recent Rolling Stone article about the tragic death of a patient at Beond in 2022 (interestingly, 2 days after his initial dose), he discusses what he feels was inaccurate, largely related to what could be perceived as a suggestion that there wasn’t enough screening or that corners were cut. With no official reason given for the patient’s death, it brings into question just how safe one can be, especially with people whose bodies and hearts have been through so much. How much hidden harm is created by the stress of PTSD and addiction?

He discusses:

• The complexity of journalism and drawing conclusions from limited information
• The limitations of conventional addiction treatments and the sad numbers around how many people stick with rehab
• The importance of collecting as much data as possible about each patient, at regular intervals, prior to, during, and after the experience
• The need for a regulating group to create standards around admission and administration procedures for ibogaine

and more! 

We’re releasing this episode on Veterans Day because Beond’s program was co-developed by veterans, military medical personnel, and active-duty law enforcement officers who have seen how much ibogaine can help. If you know a vet who is struggling, be sure to let them know what's possible with psychedelic therapy. 

For links, head to the show notes page. 

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Stephanie Karzon Abrams, a neuropharmacologist and founding advisor of Beyond Consulting.

Find full show notes and links here:  https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-276-stephanie-karzon-abrams

With her unique background spanning clinical pharmacology, corporate healthcare, and the music industry, Stephanie shares insights on the intersection of psychedelic science, integrative medicine, and community building. She discusses the transformative potential of psychedelics from a neuropharmacological perspective, her work supporting ketamine clinics and plant medicine brands, as well as her journey from traditional healthcare to pioneering innovative approaches in the psychedelic space.

Stephanie Karzon Abrams, a neuropharmacologist with a Masters of Science in Clinical Pharmacology, is the founding advisor of Beyond Consulting, providing science, research, operations, and strategy solutions to organizations in the natural product, plant medicine, and psychedelic sectors. Her career spans from clinical research and Johnson & Johnson to pioneering innovative healthcare approaches.

Beyond her scientific work, she co-creates community initiatives including Public Secret music label and Mt. Mushmore educational dinner series. As a prescriber for MDMA and psilocybin therapy through Canada's Special Access Program and scientific advisor for the Microdosing Collective, she champions the integration of cutting-edge therapeutic approaches with traditional healthcare. Her work focuses on bridging scientific expertise with strategic thinking to advance innovative healthcare solutions.

Highlights:

• Origins of Public Secret record label and global groove music collective
• Rich cultural background and journey from Montreal to California
• Stephanie breaks down clinical psychopharmacology
• Mount Mushmore
• Transition from J&J to psychedelic medicine consulting
• Stephanie's firm, Beyond Consulting
• Supporting ketamine clinics and integrative medicine centers
• Deep dive into neuropharmacology of psychedelics vs traditional medications
• Microdosing applications for ADHD and anxiety
• Importance of lifestyle changes alongside psychedelic protocols
• Managing work-life balance in the psychedelic industry

Links:

• Beyond Consulting
• Public Secret Music Label
• Microdosing Collective

Episode Sponsors:

• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave’s Psychedelic Coaching Institute.

Support Lorenzo on Patreon.com Guest speakers: Allyson and Alex Grey PROGRAM NOTES: Alex Grey and Frank Nuccio - Burning Man 2024 At the 2024 Burnoing Man Festival, two of the Palenque Note speakers were Allyson and Alex Gray, who discuss their work and their interspiritual art church, COSM, in the Hudson Valley. They explain how their use of psychedelics, particularly MDMA, influenced their decision to create COSM as a community space where people could connect through shared experiences and explore their spirituality. They also highlight the importance of community values, particularly integrity and truth, in fostering a supportive and inclusive environment. The conversation touches on various topics, including the nature of spiritual communities, the role of art and creativity, and the concept of the afterlife. Belhe first appearance of the Grey's on the Psychedelic Salon. These recordings were made at Entheon Village during the 2006 Burning Man Festival. Podcast 007 – “Art, Love, Family, and Psychedelics” (Part 1)https://psychedelicsalon.com/podcast-007-art-love-family-and-psychedelics-part-1/ Podcast 008 – “Art, Love, Family, and Psychedelics” (Part 2)https://psychedelicsalon.com/podcast-008-art-love-family-and-psychedelics-part-2/