Third Wave Podcast

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, host Paul F. Austin welcomes cultural historian and acclaimed author Mike Jay.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-316/?ref=278

Together they explore the untold history of nitrous oxide, psychedelic experimentation in the Romantic era, and the deeper cultural and philosophical roots of psychedelic science.

Mike shares insights from his latest book, Free Radicals, highlighting how figures like Humphry Davy and William James helped shape psychedelic thought long before the 1960s. The conversation weaves through ancient San Pedro rituals, colonial attempts to suppress peyote use, and the divergent paths of modern psychedelic medicine.

From poetic self-experimentation to medicalized models, Mike unpacks the historical tensions between grassroots healing and institutional control—and what this means for the future of psychedelic culture.

Mike Jay is a British author and cultural historian who has written widely on the history of drugs, consciousness, and medical science. His books include Mescaline: A Global History of the First Psychedelic, Psychonauts: Drugs and the Making of the Modern Mind, and Free Radicals: How a Group of Romantic Experimenters Gave Birth to Psychedelic Science. Mike contributes regularly to The London Review of Books, The New York Review of Books, and The Wall Street Journal.

Highlights:

• How early scientists used nitrous oxide for inner exploration
• Romantic poets as the original psychedelic self-experimenters
• Parallels between Humphry Davy and Alexander Shulgin
• What William James learned from nitrous, not mescaline
• Colonial suppression of peyote and indigenous resilience
• The enduring symbolism of San Pedro in Andean ritual
• How the counterculture reinterpreted Native practices
• Why modern psychedelic medicine may be repeating history
• The role of finance in shaping current therapy models
• Looking ahead: divergent futures of psychedelic healing

Episode links: 

• Mike’s website
• Mike’s new book, Free Radicals
• Mescaline: A Global History of the First Psychedelic
• Psychonauts: Drugs and the Making of the Modern Mind
• Manvir Singh’s article in The Guardian
• “The Peyote Dance” by Antonin Artaud

Episode sponsors: 

• Psychedelic Coacing Institute's Intensive for Psychedelic Professionals in Costa Rica - a transformative retreat for personal and professional growth.
• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, host Paul F. Austin welcomes Brian Robertson—creator of Holacracy and founder of Ledgeway Sangha—for a thought-provoking conversation at the intersection of organizational design, spiritual community, and psychedelic practice.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-315/?ref=278

Best known for reimagining how companies structure authority through Holacracy, Brian now brings his systems-level insight into the realm of psychedelic spirituality. He shares the origin and mission of Ledgeway Sangha, a legal psychedelic church rooted in peer-to-peer healing, communal practice, and non-dogmatic love. Together, Paul and Brian explore how this innovative model bypasses conventional hierarchy, integrates softer entheogens like 2C-B and 6-APB, and builds a path toward legal protection for churches operating outside mainstream psychedelic frameworks.

Brian Robertson is best known for creating Holacracy, the most comprehensive framework in the world today for running self-managed companies using a decentralized power structure in lieu of a traditional management hierarchy. He’s founded and built many organizations over the past 30 years as an entrepreneur, including HolacracyOne, which helps companies use self-management to unleash creativity and empowered leadership, and the software company GlassFrog, which helps both traditional and self-managed companies drive organizational transparency, agility, and alignment to purpose.

To date, tens of thousands of companies in over 50 countries have embraced his pioneering methods and ideas, and his frequent public speaking seamlessly weaves between business, management, consciousness, and love. Brian is currently focused on building Ledgeway Sangha, an entheogenic church and community-building organization that’s harnessing psychedelics to help people release judgments and resistances into loving acceptance of all that is.

Highlights:

• From Holacracy to entheogenic spirituality
• Why Ledgeway Sangha has no doctrine or belief system
• Love as the norming force in community
• 2C-B and 6-APB as self-integrating medicines
• The case for subtle, sovereign psychedelic journeys
• A new model of psychedelic integration through consistency
• Why hierarchy undermines safe psychedelic containers
• Legal strategies under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act
• Creating a church for mystics, not priests
• Poetry, presence, and redefining spiritual transmission

Episode links: 

• Ledgeway Sangha
• Holacracy
• Brian’s social media

Episode Sponsor:

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout
• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave’s Psychedelic Coaching Institute.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Dr. Vass Eliopoulos, co-founder of Longevity Health and a pioneer at the intersection of regenerative medicine, longevity science, and psychedelics.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-314/?ref=278

Dr. Vass shares his journey from emergency medicine to a proactive, prevention-based approach to health optimization for high performers.

Dr. Vass shares why today’s healthcare system fails to address the root causes of disease, the synergistic potential of psychedelics, stem cells, peptides, and hyperbaric oxygen therapy, and how chronic stress and inflammation underlie many modern conditions. He also outlines why psychedelics may be essential in reversing chronic inflammation and treating neurodegenerative diseases—and how prevention, not pathology, should guide the future of medicine.

Dr. Vassily Eliopoulos (Dr. Vass) is the Co-Founder and Chief Medical Officer of Longevity Health, a cutting-edge regenerative medicine clinic in Boulder, Colorado. A former ER physician and Peace Corps volunteer, Dr. Vass now helps high performers optimize their health through advanced diagnostics, regenerative therapies, and personalized plans. A black belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, avid climber, and kayaker, he brings deep experience in resilience and recovery to his clinical work.

Highlights:

• Why Vass left emergency medicine for longevity health
• COVID as a catalyst for self-directed wellness
• The failure of “sick care” to promote true health
• Psychedelics as first-line treatments for mental health
• Chronic stress, inflammation, and disease progression
• Synergies between psychedelics, stem cells, and peptides
• Prevention vs. pathology in modern medicine
• Neurodegeneration as chronic brain injury
• Future directions for regenerative and psychedelic therapies

Curious about becoming a certified psychedelic coach? Join Paul F. Austin Thursday, July 31 2025, 10:00 AM PT for a free info session exploring the Psychedelic Coaching Institute’s Practitioner Certification Program—an immersive training that blends science, ceremony, and real-world coaching to help you lead others through lasting transformation. Learn More.

Episode Links:

• Longevity Health Clinic
• Dr. Vassily’s Instagram

Episode Sponsor:

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

Following our recent conversation with Dr. Robin Carhart-Harris on the neuroscience of SSRIs and psychedelics, this bonus episode takes the next step—focusing on clinical realities, tapering strategies, and patient safety.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-313b/?ref=278

Dr. Dave Rabin—a board-certified psychiatrist, neuroscientist, and co-founder of Apollo Neuro—joins Paul F. Austin for a candid, protocol-driven conversation. Together, they unpack why combining SSRIs with psychedelics can be dangerous, how to safely taper with support tools like ketamine and CBDA, and how to prepare clients for deeper psychedelic work.

If you’re a facilitator, therapist, or simply someone navigating antidepressants and interested in microdosing, this episode offers practical, medically-grounded insights.

Highlights:

• How SSRIs blunt emotional range and alter awareness
• The neuroscience of serotonin and psychedelic receptors
• Serious risks of serotonin syndrome when mixing with SSRIs
• Ketamine’s role in tapering and unlocking neuroplasticity
• Practical tools to regulate the nervous system during SSRI withdrawal
• Recommended psilocybin strains for sensitive or anxious clients
• How long-term SSRI use may (or may not) affect psychedelic response
• Safety-first protocols for psychedelic integration
• The future of microdosing as a sustainable antidepressant approach

Episode Links:

• Dr. Dave Rabin’s Website
• Dr. Dave on Instagram
• Dr. Dave on LinkedIn
• Apollo Neuro
• Last week’s bonus episode with Dr. Robin Carhart-Harris: SSRIs vs. Psychedelics: From Blunting to Rebooting 
• Episode 218 with Dr. Dave Rabin
• Episode 74 with Dr. Dave Rabin

Episode Sponsor

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Dr. Dan Engle—psychiatrist, neurologist, and integrative medicine pioneer—for a profound discussion on psychedelics, brain health, and healing. Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-313/?ref=278 Dr. Dan shares his personal journey through traumatic brain injuries and recovery through both Western neurology and indigenous plant medicine traditions. They explore neuroplasticity vs. neurogenesis, ibogaine’s potential in brain injury recovery, and how belief, awe, and prayer shape healing outcomes. Dr. Dan also reflects on lessons psychiatry can learn from shamanic practice—highlighting the importance of service, community, and ceremony in catalyzing transformation.

Dr. Dan Engle is a psychiatrist whose work bridges regenerative medicine, psychedelic research, integrative spirituality, and peak performance. He is founder of Full Spectrum Medicine, a psychedelic integration platform, and Thank You Life, a nonprofit expanding access to psychedelic therapies. He is author of The Concussion Repair Manual and A Dose of Hope: A Story of MDMA-Assisted Psychotherapy.

Episode Highlights: 

• Healing from traumatic brain injury
• Iboga vs. Ibogaine: Benefits and risks
• Neuroplasticity vs. neurogenesis explained
• The science of awe and belief in healing
• Shamanic lessons for modern psychiatry
• Critical learning periods after psychedelic sessions
• Psychedelics as clarogens and renewing agents
• The placebo effect and collective service
• Texas legislation and Ibogaine research

Episode Sponsors:

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin is joined by renowned neuroscientist Dr. Robin Carhart-Harris and microdosing policy advocate John Downs for a replay of a live event originally held on June 10th, Microdosing vs. SSRIs: What’s Happening in the Brain and Why It Matters. Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-312b/?ref=278 Together, they explore the scientific distinctions between SSRIs and psychedelics, focusing on neuroimaging, brain entropy, emotional processing, and the REBUS model. Dr. Carhart-Harris shares key insights from landmark studies on psilocybin therapy and discusses the evidence (and limitations) around microdosing. John Downs closes the conversation with an update on the Microdosing Collective’s efforts to shift policy and expand access.

Robin Carhart-Harris, PhD is a neuropharmacologist, psychologist, and Ralph Metzner Distinguished Professor in Neurology and Psychiatry at the University of California, San Francisco. He leads the Psychedelics Division at UCSF’s Neuroscape and formerly founded and led the Centre for Psychedelic Research at Imperial College London.

John Downs is Executive Director of the Microdosing Collective, advocating for responsible policy reform and legal access to microdosing. With 25 years’ experience in sales, business development, and emerging markets, John helps individuals optimize mindset, performance, and purpose. Episode Highlights:

• Why SSRIs blunt, while psychedelics reset emotional processing
• How psilocybin compares to antidepressants in clinical trials
• Brain entropy, plasticity, and the REBUS model explained
• The role of the default mode network in mental health
• Why microdosing research is still so limited
• Ketamine vs. psilocybin: differences in brain mechanisms
• Is serotonin syndrome a real microdosing risk?
• Can psychedelics reverse long-term SSRI effects?
• The Microdosing Collective’s mission for policy reform
• What Robin Carhart-Harris’ upcoming book will explore

Episode Links:

• Robin’s lab & upcoming book
• Microdosing Collective
• Join Dr. Robin Carhart-Harris at our Practitioner Intensive (November 5–10, Costa Rica)

Episode Sponsors:

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout
• Psychedelic Coacing Isntitute's  Intensive for Psychedelic Professionals in Costa Rica - a transformative retreat for personal and professional growth.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, host Paul F. Austin welcomes back J. Ashley T. Booth, LCSW, MS—a longtime friend, therapist, and psychedelic pioneer.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-312/?ref=278

Ashley shares her journey from community activism to clinical work with ketamine and MDMA, and her new illustrated guide to IFS, Quieting the Storm Within.

J. Ashley T. Booth, LCSW, MS has led the Southern California Psychedelic Society, served as MAPS trial coordinator for MDMA-assisted PTSD therapy, co-founded a ketamine clinic, and offers IFS, Hakomi, integration, and harm reduction training. Her illustrated picture book introduces IFS concepts through visuals and metaphor.

Highlights:

• Ashley’s 8‑year evolution from community to clinical work
• The origin and intent behind Quieting the Storm Within
• Clouds & sun: A visual metaphor for the internal landscape

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes anthropologist and author Dr. Manvir Singh to explore the enduring power of shamanism as a psychological and cultural technology.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-311/?ref=278

Singh discusses insights from his fieldwork with the Mentawai people and Amazonian Yopo shamans, explaining how ritual, performance, and belief help people manage uncertainty and catalyze healing. Together with Paul, he examines the contested history of ancient psychedelic use, the risks of neo-shamanic narratives, and the deep psychological roots of sacred ceremony.

Dr. Manvir Singh is an assistant professor of anthropology at the University of California, Davis. He holds a BA from Brown University and a PhD in human evolutionary biology from Harvard. His writing has appeared in The New Yorker, Wired, The Guardian, and top academic journals. His first book, Shamanism: The Timeless Religion, was published in 2025.

Highlights:

• Shamanism as a psychological technology
• Performance, otherness, and credibility in healing
• Yopo, bufotenine, and entheogenic archaeology
• Why ancient psychedelic use is hard to verify
• The tension between tradition and neo-shamanism
• What happens when ceremony loses its context

Episode Sponsors:

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

These show links may contain affiliate links. Third Wave receives a small percentage of the product price if you purchase through the above affiliate links.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Natalie Baird-King, a board-certified attorney in marital and family law who discovered the transformative power of forgiveness through psychedelic experiences.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-310/?ref=278

Natalie shares her journey from childhood abuse and depression to spiritual healing catalyzed by ayahuasca. As the author of Forgiving Unforgivable, she explains her HOPE model (Harken back, Open your heart, Proclaim forgiveness, Experience freedom) and how forgiveness—particularly self-forgiveness—became the key to healing her trauma and stepping into her purpose.

Natalie also discusses how her psychedelic experiences improved her professional approach as a mediator, bringing more compassion to her legal practice and inspiring her to share her story despite potential professional risks. Natalie Baird-King is an accomplished author, transformational coach, and TEDx speaker dedicated to helping others overcome trauma and embrace forgiveness. She is the author of Forgiving Unforgivable and is currently working on her second book focusing on self-forgiveness. A survivor of childhood abuse, Natalie channels her personal experiences into coaching high-performing professionals to overcome emotional barriers. Inspired by her late father-in-law, legendary broadcaster Larry King, Natalie uses storytelling to empower others to heal and thrive.

Highlights:

• Stumbling upon forgiveness through ayahuasca
• The practice of self-forgiveness as liberation
• Reconnecting with her father in a celestial journey
• Breaking free from depression and alcohol dependency
• The HOPE forgiveness model
• Bringing compassion to the legal profession
• Challenging professional stigma around psychedelics
• Mentorship from legendary broadcaster Larry King
• Advocating for psychedelic healing within legal circles
• Transforming anger into purpose

Episode links:

• Forgiving Unforgivable (Book)
• Natalie Baird Mediations

Episode links:

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin sits down with Rachel Pastor and Tiffany Hurd, leaders behind Golden Rule Mushrooms, a woman-led microdosing company pushing the boundaries of accessibility, education, and intention in the psychedelic space.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-309/?ref=278

From overcoming heroin addiction and corporate burnout to leading a values-driven microdosing brand, Rachel and Tiffany share their powerful personal journeys and the mission that fuels their work today. They dive into the evolving landscape of legal psychedelics, the challenges of running a public-facing microdosing company, and the line between recreational use and intentional wellness.

This candid conversation explores how Golden Rule is reframing the perception of psychedelics by offering trustworthy, well-branded psilocybin and LSD microdoses paired with community support and education.

Rachel Pastor is the co-founder of Golden Rule Mushrooms and a passionate advocate for healing through psychedelics. After overcoming heroin addiction and years of trauma, she became a leader in the wellness space, working in fitness and personal development before discovering the transformative power of microdosing. Today, she channels her lived experience into helping others access safe, supportive, and empowering psychedelic tools.

Tiffany Hurd is the co-founder of Golden Rule Mushrooms, a microdosing advisor, leadership mentor, and speaker with over seven years of experience in the psychedelic space. She has guided hundreds of individuals and teams through intentional microdosing journeys using neuroscience-backed protocols. Tiffany’s work bridges personal transformation and professional growth, helping people build emotional resilience, unlock creativity, and heal with integrity.

Ready to try Golden Rule? Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout. Click Here.

Highlights:

• From heroin addiction to fitness leader to microdosing advocate
• Creating accessible, trusted microdosing products
• Navigating legality and risk in a gray-market space
• Building a woman-run company rooted in lived experience
• The role of education in safe microdosing use
• Wellness vs. recreational use
• Can microdosing be overused or misused?
• Microdosing as a catalyst—not a cure-all

Episode Sponsor:

• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave’s Psychedelic Coaching Institute.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Victoria Lynn Carroll, a Los Angeles-based filmmaker who made an unconventional journey from actor to documentary filmmaker.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-308/?ref=278

Victoria shares how a vision during an ayahuasca ceremony inspired her to create her directorial debut, She Is a Shaman, which provides an intimate look into the personal life of a female ayahuasca shaman in the Peruvian Amazon. She discusses the challenges of filming in the jungle without electricity, the personal transformations that coincided with her creative process, and her decision to release the film for free on YouTube, where it has garnered over 350,000 views. Victoria explores the intersection of sacred storytelling, the role of women in shamanic traditions, and how creating art became a form of surrender for her.

Episode Highlights:

• Receiving the documentary vision during ayahuasca ceremony
• Filming challenges without electricity in Peru's jungle
• The paradoxical everyday life of female shamans
• Navigating ethics while filming sacred ceremonies
• Personal divorce synchronizing with creative breakthrough
• Mystery guest's stormy behavior at the center
• Choosing free YouTube distribution over streaming deals
• Surrender as the filmmaker's creative process
• Unknown Canadian refugee drama at the center
• The translator who fled with bug-bitten lover

Selected Links:

• 'She Is a Shaman on YouTube
• Victoria's Website

Episode Sponsors:

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Dr. Richard Blake, a pioneering psychologist and breathwork researcher, to discuss the science and clinical application of Conscious Connected Breathwork (CCB).

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-307/?ref=278

Dr. Blake shares key insights from his groundbreaking randomized controlled trial—the largest to date—on the effectiveness of CCB for reducing anxiety. The conversation explores the distinctions between breathwork modalities, how altered states are reached without substances, and why trauma-informed facilitation is essential for safe practice.

Paul and Dr. Blake also dive into the pitfalls of mainstream psychotherapy, the overlooked power of lifestyle interventions, and how breathwork compares to both SSRIs and psychedelics in measurable outcomes.

Dr. Richard Blake holds a PhD in Transpersonal Psychology and is a pioneering researcher in the field of breathwork, psychedelics, and holistic mental health. He conducted the largest-ever randomized controlled trial on Conscious Connected Breathwork (CCB), providing groundbreaking scientific evidence on its effects on anxiety and well-being. Dr. Blake works with RUNGA, where he is dedicated to advancing the evolution of mental health treatments—moving beyond head-centered approaches to include breathwork, psychedelics, nutrition, exercise, and other integrative healing practices. His mission is to help people unlock deeper levels of psychological resilience, nervous system regulation, and self-awareness through embodied and experiential methods.

Highlights:

• Why breathwork is a potent tool for trauma and anxiety
• Comparing Holotropic Breathwork to newer trauma-informed approaches
• Facilitator-to-client ratio standards for safety
• The ethics and economics of group breathwork sessions
• Inside the largest randomized trial on CCB for anxiety
• Why 5% adverse effects matters—and how it compares to SSRIs
• The “pivotal mental states” hypothesis explained
• Integration of talk therapy and altered states
• The power of community and connection in healing
• From peak performance to depth psychology: Dr. Blake’s story

Episode Links:

• Website
• RUNGA
• Breathguru
• Richard on Instagram
• RUNGA 90-DAY INTENSIVE, START NOW FOR FREE.

Episode Sponsons:

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes back Rick Doblin, Ph.D., Founder and President of MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies), for a deeply personal and visionary conversation on the recent FDA rejection of MDMA-assisted therapy.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-306/?ref=278

Rick opens up about the painful setbacks, internal missteps, and his own process of recovery and renewed hope. He explains why this isn’t the end—but a critical turning point for psychedelic medicine.

Rick and Paul unpack the nuances of drug plus therapy, exploring why context, integration, and culture matter as much as pharmacology. They reflect on the future of MAPS, the psychedelic renaissance beyond FDA approval, and how business, politics, and spirituality intersect with healing. The episode also explores Rick’s enduring belief in public benefit models, global collaboration, and the potential of a spiritualized humanity.

Rick Doblin, Ph.D., is the Founder and President of MAPS. He received his doctorate in Public Policy from Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government, and has spent nearly four decades advancing the safe and legal use of psychedelics and marijuana through science, education, and advocacy.

Highlights:

• The cost of MAPS' quiet period
• Why MDMA therapy was rejected by FDA
• Pharma vs. therapy: What’s best for patients?
• Drug-only treatments vs. integrated therapy
• Ibogaine’s role in brain healing and PTSD
• MAPS’ path forward: Phase 4 vs. Phase 3
• What the Dutch got right about MDMA
• Spiritualized humanity and self-transcendence
• The global impact of MAPS’ work
• Business, love, and psychedelic ethics

Want to attend this year’s Psychedelic Science 2025 Conference? For our community: Use code THIRDWAVE15 for 15% off registration. Learn more and register at psychedelicscience.org — See you there!

Episode Links

• Psychedelic Science 2025 Conference
• MAPS Website
• Psychedelic Science on Instagram
• MAPS on Instagram
• Psychedelic Science on LinkedIn
• MAPS on LinkedIn
• Psychedelic Science on X

Episode Sponsors:

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout
• Psychedelic Coacing Isntitute's Intensive for Psychedelic Professionals in Costa Rica - a transformative retreat for personal and professional growth.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Bryan Hubbard, a prominent advocate for psychedelic-assisted therapies, particularly ibogaine in the treatment of opioid addiction and mental health disorders. 

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-305/?ref=278

Update (May 2025): Days before this episode's release, the Texas House approved a Senate-backed bill to fund ibogaine research through a public-private partnership aimed at securing FDA approval. This vote marks a major milestone in the movement Bryan describes throughout this conversation.

Bryan shares his journey from leading Kentucky's Opioid Abatement Advisory Commission to spearheading breakthrough ibogaine research initiatives in Texas. He articulates ibogaine's unique neurological properties, discussing how it can reset brain neurochemistry in 36 hours and potentially treat conditions from traumatic brain injury to Parkinson's disease. The conversation explores the spiritual dimensions of ibogaine experiences, the political landscape surrounding psychedelic medicine, and Bryan's ongoing efforts to medicalize ibogaine through FDA drug development trials, highlighting Texas as the next frontier for this life-saving research.

W. Bryan Hubbard is the Executive Director of the American Ibogaine Initiative. He is the first and former Chairman and Executive Director of the Kentucky Opioid Abatement Advisory Commission. He concurrently served as Special Counsel to the Kentucky Attorney General’s Office of Medicaid Fraud and Abuse Control and was its prior Executive Director. He served on the Kentucky Judicial Commission on Mental Health, the Kentucky Child Support Guidelines Commission, Mine Safety Review Board, and the Kentucky Office of Drug Control Policy’s Recovery Ready Communities Advisory Council. He previously served as Commissioner of the Kentucky Department of Income Support wherein he led the Commonwealth’s Social Security Disability and Child Support Enforcement systems. He practiced workers’ compensation law representing Walmart, Tyson Foods, and Tennessee Valley Authority for sixteen years. During his practice years, he observed the predacious onset of Kentucky’s Opioid Epidemic amid generational joblessness, poverty, disability, and substance use. He was raised in Virginia’s coalfields and is the proud grandson of two grade-school educated coal miners on whose shoulders he stands.

Highlights:

• Why ibogaine interrupts addiction instantly
• The Stanford study that changed everything
• Resetting brain neurochemistry in 36 hours
• From Parkinson's to PTSD: Ibogaine's broad applications
• The spiritual awakening dimension of treatment
• How pharmaceutical interests block breakthrough medicine
• Kentucky's lost opportunity: $42 million for research
• Texas as the new frontier for ibogaine medicalization
• Matrix pharmacology: Ibogaine's intelligent mechanism
• The political war over life-saving psychedelic medicine

Episode Links

• Website
• American Ibogaine Initiative
• Instagram: @w_bryan_hubbard
• X (Formerly Twitter): @w_bryan_hubbard
• Linkedin

Episode Sponsors:

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Dr. Pedram Shojai, known as The Urban Monk, a former Taoist monk and doctor of Oriental medicine.  Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-304/?ref=278

Pedram shares his journey from intensive martial arts training under one of the last living descendants of a Daoist monastery to bringing ancient wisdom into modern life. He discusses the challenges of integrating monastic practices into householder living, the relationship between physical vitality and spiritual growth, and offers a balanced perspective on psychedelics. Dr. Shojai explores the importance of strengthening one's vessel before seeking peak experiences, the risks of "shortcut spirituality," and how ancient contemplative practices can help us live with greater presence in today's fast-paced world.

Dr. Pedram Shojai is the founder and director of The Urban Monk Academy and the New York Times bestselling author of Rise and Shine, The Urban Monk, The Art of Stopping Time, Inner Alchemy, Exhausted, Trauma, Focus, and Conscious Parenting.

He's the producer of the movies Vitality, Origins, Prosperity, and The Great Heist, as well as the docuseries Interconnected, Gateway to Health, Exhausted, Trauma, Conscious Parenting, Hormones Health & Harmony, and Gut Check.

He hosts "The Urban Monk" podcast and is a key influencer in the health and personal development space. As a prominent physician in the functional medicine space, he's known for his ability to bring people together around ideas that matter.

In his spare time, he's a kung fu–practicing world traveler, a fierce global green warrior, an avid backpacker, a devout alchemist, and an old-school Jedi biohacker working to preserve our natural world and wake us up to our full potential.

Episode Highlights: 

• From Kung Fu to contemplative practice
• The path of the "fire monk"
• Strengthening the vessel before spiritual work
• The life garden: mindful householder practice
• Vitality as prerequisite for spiritual growth
• Integrating ancient wisdom into modern life
• Jing, Qi, and Shen: energy management principles
• Nervous system preparation for psychedelics
• Awareness as background process, not app
• Atlantis origins of contemplative practices

Episode Sponsor: These show links may contain affiliate links. Third Wave receives a small percentage of the product price if you purchase through the above affiliate links.

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Dr. Richard Schwartz, creator of the Internal Family Systems (IFS) model of psychotherapy. Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-303/?ref=278 Dick shares how he discovered that psychedelics naturally facilitate access to what IFS calls "Self energy" - the compassionate core within everyone that can heal wounded parts. He explains how medicines like ketamine and MDMA help relax protective parts of our psyche, revealing both Self energy and exiled parts that need healing. Dick reveals his personal journey with psychedelics, including his work with ketamine-assisted IFS therapy, and discusses the relationship between psychedelic experiences and spiritual guides. He emphasizes how reframing "bad trips" as opportunities for exiled parts to be witnessed can transform challenging experiences into profound healing moments. Dick Schwartz began his career as a family therapist and academic at the University of Illinois at Chicago. There he discovered that family therapy alone did not achieve full symptom relief. His patients became his teachers as they described their inner "parts," which formed networks resembling the families he had been working with. He found that when patients separated from these parts, they shifted into a state of curiosity, calm, confidence, and compassion—what he called the Self. From these explorations, the Internal Family Systems (IFS) model was born in the early 1980s. Now evidence-based, IFS has become widely used, particularly for trauma work, offering non-pathologizing techniques for individuals, couples, families, corporations, and classrooms. Dick lives with his wife Jeanne near Chicago. Highlights: 

• The natural synergy between psychedelics and IFS therapy
• How psychedelics temporarily quiet protective "manager" parts
• Understanding how there are “no bad parts” of the psyche
• The difference between Self and parts in IFS
• Reconceptualizing "bad trips" as healing opportunities
• IFS and shadow work
• How psychedelics accelerate access to exiled parts
• Moving IFS beyond therapy into leadership and systemic change
• Legacy burdens: healing inherited trauma collectively
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Episode Sponsors: 

• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Marlena Robbins, a proud member of the Diné (Navajo) nation and doctoral student at the UC Berkeley School of Public Health. Marlena shares her personal journey with psilocybin mushrooms and how they helped reconnect her with her heritage and family. Her research examines the cultural, social, and policy aspects of psilocybin use within Native communities, highlighting differences between urban and rural perspectives to inform educational frameworks, culturally-informed psychedelic assisted therapy models, and public health policy.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-302/?ref=278

Marlena Robbins is pursuing a Doctor of Public Health degree at UC Berkeley. Her research examines the cultural, social, and policy aspects of psilocybin use within Native communities, highlighting differences between urban and rural perspectives to inform educational frameworks, culturally-informed psychedelic assisted therapy models and public health policy.

Robbins is a graduate student researcher at the Berkeley Center for the Science of Psychedelics, focusing on program evaluation. Her residency with the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration led to the development of a tribal engagement toolkit, showcasing the significance of psychedelics in spiritual, recreational and conservative contexts among Tribal communities.

Recently, Robbins was invited to join the Federally Recognized American Tribes and Indigenous Community Working Group for the Natural Medicine Health Act with the Colorado Department of Regulatory Agencies. This role enables her to advocate for the protection of sacred plants against commercialization and cultural misappropriation.

Highlights:

• Finding sobriety and healthy motherhood through mushrooms
• First experience of Hozhó: beauty, harmony, and balance Reconnecting with mother through shared psychedelic healing
• Advocating for indigenous representation in psychedelic research
• Applying indigenous critical lens to psychedelic policy
• Personifying medicines as relatives with their own spirits
• Evaluating psychedelic integration in Native mental health systems
• Moving beyond capitalism toward reciprocal relationships with medicines
• Meeting ancestral trauma with courage instead of avoidance
• Building bridges between indigenous knowledge and Western healthcare

Episode Sponsors:

• Psychedelic Coacing Isntitute's Intensive for Psychedelic Professionals in Costa Rica - a transformative retreat for personal and professional growth.
• Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Sam Mandel, co-founder and CEO of Ketamine Clinics Los Angeles (KCLA). Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-301-sam-mandel/?ref=278 Sam shares his journey co-founding KCLA with his father in 2014, pioneering ketamine infusion therapy when few were exploring its potential for mental health. From humble beginnings in a storage closet to becoming a leading mental health center with over 30,000 infusions administered, Sam discusses the challenges and triumphs of building a patient-centric practice. He explains the science behind ketamine's effectiveness compared to alternatives like Spravato, highlights the importance of individualized treatment, and offers a passionate critique of the current mental healthcare system while envisioning what meaningful reform could look like.

Co-founder & CEO of Ketamine Clinics Los Angeles (KCLA), Sam Mandel has channeled his lifelong passion for healthcare advocacy into transforming mental health care. From volunteering at a teen-to-teen suicide prevention hotline at twelve to pioneering one of the foremost Ketamine Infusion Therapy clinics in 2014 alongside his father, Dr. Steven L. Mandel, Sam has been featured in Entrepreneur's Top 10 Inspiring Healthcare Entrepreneurs (2023) and earned two 2024 Stevie Awards. Under his leadership, KCLA has provided over 30,000 infusions to more than 6,000 patients with an 83% success rate, establishing gold-standard treatment protocols while expanding services to include General Psychiatry and TMS therapy. Highlights: 

• The founding story of KCLA and early skepticism from the medical community
• Why IV ketamine outperforms nasal Spravato in efficacy and cost-efficiency
• Creating individualized ketamine protocols for optimal patient outcomes
• How insurance companies create barriers to effective mental healthcare
• KCLA's 83% success rate compared to 50-70% in controlled research settings
• Expanding from ketamine to TMS and general psychiatry
• Preparing for future psychedelic medicines like MDMA and psilocybin
• The critical flaws in America's mental healthcare system

Episode Links: 

• Ketamine Clinics Los Angeles (KCLA)
• The difference between Ketamine and Spravato (esketamine)
• Third Wave’s Ultimate Guide to Ketamine

Episode Sponsor:

• Psychedelic Coacing Isntitute's Intensive for Psychedelic Professionals in Costa Rica - a transformative retreat for personal and professional growth.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Dr. Simon Ruffell, a psychiatrist, ayahuasca researcher, and student of curanderismo.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-300/?ref=278

Simon shares his transformative journey from being a skeptical Western psychiatrist to embracing the spiritual dimensions of plant medicine after experiencing what he describes as an "ontological shock" during an ayahuasca ceremony. He discusses his ongoing apprenticeship with Shipibo curanderos in the Amazon, his research into ayahuasca's effects on mental health and epigenetics, and his work bridging indigenous wisdom with Western scientific understanding. Dr. Ruffell explores the differences between Western medical approaches and traditional healing practices, highlighting how the Shipibo focus on harmony and balance rather than fixing specific problems. Through his organization Onaya, he conducts reciprocal research with indigenous communities, studying how ayahuasca affects veterans with PTSD and examining the epigenetic changes that may explain its profound healing effects.

Dr. Simon Ruffell is trained across three modalities: Western medicine (as a medical doctor specializing in psychiatry), research psychology (with a PhD in Amazonian ayahuasca and mental health), and traditional plant medicine (as a student of curanderismo). He is the Chief Medical Officer of MINDS, a nonprofit research organization exploring the potential of psychedelics and consciousness practices to address humanity's greatest challenges.

Since 2015, his work has focused primarily on exploring ayahuasca while collaborating with indigenous communities in the Amazon basin. He is the CEO of Onaya and founded the nonprofit Onaya Science, which researches the effects of ayahuasca in naturalistic Amazonian settings. Dr. Ruffell's work seeks to understand plant medicines from both Indigenous and Western perspectives, and he is currently training in Shipibo Shamanism under Don Rono Lopez.

Highlights:

• A spiritual attack during ceremony that shifted his perspective on reality
• Bridging indigenous wisdom with Western scientific research
• The difference between psychedelic guides and trained shamans
• Ayahuasca and epigenetics: clearing ancestral trauma
• How traditional medicine evolves and adapts over time
• Remarkable PTSD treatment outcomes with veterans
• Approaching healing as returning to harmony
• EEG research during ceremonial Icaros singing
• Shamans as navigational experts of the psychedelic realm
• When to choose Western medicine vs. traditional approaches

Episode Links:

• Dr. Simon Ruffell's Website
• Onaya
• Onaya Science

Episode Sponsor

• Psychedelic Coacing Isntitute's Intensive for Psychedelic Professionals in Costa Rica - a transformative retreat for personal and professional growth.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Dr. Raymond Turpin, a psychologist and psychedelic researcher who has been studying these medicines since 1984. Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcasts/episode-299/?ref=278 Dr. Turpin shares his journey from discovering Timothy Leary's writings as a college student to founding the Pearl Psychedelic Institute in North Carolina. He discusses his experience as one of only two sites nationwide to provide MDMA-assisted therapy through the FDA's expanded access program, the profound healing he witnessed in patients with treatment-resistant PTSD, and the challenges faced after the FDA's rejection of MDMA therapy in 2024. 

Through stories of clinical breakthroughs, educational initiatives, and recovery efforts following Hurricane Helene, Dr. Turpin offers insights into the evolving landscape of psychedelic medicine and his hope for its future integration into mainstream mental healthcare.

Dr. Raymond Turpin is the Executive Director and Clinical Director of the Pearl Psychedelic Institute in western North Carolina. He has been studying and researching psychedelics since 1984 and earned his doctorate in clinical psychology from the California Institute of Integral Studies. Dr. Turpin served as an investigator in an Expanded Access program providing MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for treatment-resistant PTSD and has worked with ketamine-assisted therapy while providing psychedelic integration services. Since 2022, he has been a Mentor for the Certificate in Psychedelic Therapy and Research program at CIIS. His clinical experience spans psychiatric hospitals, emergency units, residential treatment facilities, schools, and community mental health clinics.

Highlights:

• A psychedelic calling that began in 1984
• How a mushroom trip changed his career path
• When conventional mental health tools fall short
• MDMA's remarkable results with treatment-resistant PTSD
• From 71 to 18: Dramatic PTSD symptom reduction
• The FDA rejection: A devastating setback
• Hurricane Helene's impact on Asheville's healing community
• Why psychedelics threaten traditional mental health paradigms
• Turning trauma's irritant into a pearl of wisdom
• Education as resistance against misinformation

Episode links: 

• The Pearl Psychedelic Institute
• The Pearl Institute YouTube channel
• California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS) Certificate in Psychedelic Therapy and Research program
• Webinar: MDMA-Assisted Therapy for PTSD: Expanded Access & Beyond
• Timothy Leary's autobiography "Flashbacks" (1984)

Episode Sponsor:

• The Intensive for Psychedelic Professionals in Costa Rica - a transformative retreat for personal and professional growth.